Ageing homebrew without Kegs/CO2

[halpinhe]

Hi all,

I've been lurking here for a year now, and felt compelled to ask for advice on an issue that forum searches couldn't quite answer:

My question, roughly speaking, is whether you should forget about long-term ageing beer altogether if you don't have some way to purge vessels/bottles?

I generally like to brew about 2-3 times a month, typically half batches, and noticed recently after reaching a heavy stockpile that I don't consume my brew quickly enough before it starts to taste oxidized.

I'm gonna get a small fridge soon for my carbed beer (sadly, I store where I carb @ 21C), but in the meantime I was thinking of brewing some higher ABV styles occasionally for bulk ageing in a carboy, so that I can still brew semi-frequently.

I worry though, that by siphoning beer from a bucket into an unpurged glass carboy or speidel, and leaving it there to secondary for a few months (Xmas barley wine), that I would end up with the same oxidized aroma flavours I get in my bottles after 2 months at room temp.

Should I just brew less until I have cash for kegging?

 

[porterpounder]

Short answer: yes. That's just too warm to store beer at for any length of time and the probable O2 exposure in a carboy will be just as bad. Either that or get into Brett beers.

 

[Jawbox0]

I'd actually look closer at your bottling procedure. I've got beers more than five years old in the bottle with no oxidation. There is certainly no reason for a beer to oxygenate in two months time if you are careful at bottling and follow good procedures.

These beers had been stored warm in my garage for lack of space elsewhere.

 

[halpinhe]

I'd actually look closer at your bottling procedure. I've got beers more than five years old in the bottle with no oxidation. There is certainly no reason for a beer to oxygenate in two months time if you are careful at bottling and follow good procedures.

These beers had been stored warm in my garage for lack of space elsewhere.

That's quite interesting actually. I agree with porterpounder that in general I need to sort out my storage temperature issue asap. I can probably secondary at something closer to ferm temp (15C or so), but the bottles can only really fit in the warm closet.

I bottle using a bottling wand from a bucket, which I fill at a slow rate from a siphon to not splash etc. When I bottle, I usually take the bottle and give it a soak in PBW solution, then hot rinse, then soak in starsan solution, then pour the beer in. Should I be rinsing the Starsan solution out of the bottles before I fill them too?

I'm suspecting oxidation as the culprit, because my very pale all-pils malt beers develop a pinkish hue after about 4-6 weeks, and my hoppy beers with some crystal take on a really sweet candy like aroma and turn a murky amber colour, despite being bright gold at bottling.

Otherwise, maybe this is reaching, but my water has about 150 ppm of carbonates, so not really suited for pale to begin with. I adjust with acid to hit mash pH but is it perhaps the water that's affecting long-term storage?

 

[Carlscan26]

Those are not the symptoms of oxidation - that sounds like infection

 

[TheMadKing]

That's quite interesting actually. I agree with porterpounder that in general I need to sort out my storage temperature issue asap. I can probably secondary at something closer to ferm temp (15C or so), but the bottles can only really fit in the warm closet.

I bottle using a bottling wand from a bucket, which I fill at a slow rate from a siphon to not splash etc. When I bottle, I usually take the bottle and give it a soak in PBW solution, then hot rinse, then soak in starsan solution, then pour the beer in. Should I be rinsing the Starsan solution out of the bottles before I fill them too?

I'm suspecting oxidation as the culprit, because my very pale all-pils malt beers develop a pinkish hue after about 4-6 weeks, and my hoppy beers with some crystal take on a really sweet candy like aroma and turn a murky amber colour, despite being bright gold at bottling.

Otherwise, maybe this is reaching, but my water has about 150 ppm of carbonates, so not really suited for pale to begin with. I adjust with acid to hit mash pH but is it perhaps the water that's affecting long-term storage?

I agree that your issue doesn't sound like oxidation, unless its extremely severe. Oxidation can certainly change the color of your beer, but it should take years, not weeks unless they are exposed to open air.

An infection doesn't sound likely to me just because you would be able to taste it, if it were infected badly enough to affect color. And no, you should not rinse off the star san.

I think your issue is a chemical reaction with something in your water. Do you have a really high iron content? How much yeast and trub are you transferring into the bottles?

Are there any other symptoms common to your beers? Low head retention? Chemical or metallic flavors? carbonation issues?

 

[halpinhe]

I agree that your issue doesn't sound like oxidation, unless its extremely severe. Oxidation can certainly change the color of your beer, but it should take years, not weeks unless they are exposed to open air.

An infection doesn't sound likely to me just because you would be able to taste it, if it were infected badly enough to affect color. And no, you should not rinse off the star san.

I think your issue is a chemical reaction with something in your water. Do you have a really high iron content? How much yeast and trub are you transferring into the bottles?

Are there any other symptoms common to your beers? Low head retention? Chemical or metallic flavors? carbonation issues?

Thanks for further reactions guys. CarlScan I don't believe I have an infection, because the beer beer doesn't have any overcarbonation problems nor do I see a "ring" at the top of my bottle from a mini pellicle forming. I'll look out for it though.

MadKing I have < 0.01 ppm of Iron in my water per my water report. My immersion chiller is made of copper though (boiled 15 mins to sanitize). I've had a metallic taste in my IPAs only, which I assumed was due to my 170 ppm carbonate level not being suitable for >50IBU bittering.

Regarding trub, I typically dump everything into the fermentor through a strainer. I usually don't secondary either or crash cool, so I could well be putting quite a bit of trub and yeast into my bottles (I BIAB too, so lots of trub in wort). Do you think that could be the issue?

Regarding timelines for oxidation, I read this article (table II https://www.morebeer.com/articles/oxidation_in_beer) that gave me the impression that my 1 month at >20 C was not unreasonable, but you guys have gotten better mileage so hopefully I can figure out what's going wrong

 

[ChemErik]

It sounds like at least part of the problem is you're drinking light, hoppy beers slowly and storing warm. Hop character fades and fades faster at higher temperatures. This can leave a light hoppy beer tasting sweet and with less complexity in just a few weeks.

Now if you brew an imperial stout, a beer that is best after a year or two at cellar temperatures, you can get by with warmer storage and reduce the wait.

You might have something else going on as this doesn't explain the color change.

If you can't store cooler, how do you like darker beers? You might have better luck with storage if you brew something like a porter, brown, dark mild, etc. Of course that assumes you like those beers.

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks for further reactions guys. CarlScan I don't believe I have an infection, because the beer beer doesn't have any overcarbonation problems nor do I see a "ring" at the top of my bottle from a mini pellicle forming. I'll look out for it though.

MadKing I have < 0.01 ppm of Iron in my water per my water report. My immersion chiller is made of copper though (boiled 15 mins to sanitize). I've had a metallic taste in my IPAs only, which I assumed was due to my 170 ppm carbonate level not being suitable for >50IBU bittering.

Regarding trub, I typically dump everything into the fermentor through a strainer. I usually don't secondary either or crash cool, so I could well be putting quite a bit of trub and yeast into my bottles (I BIAB too, so lots of trub in wort). Do you think that could be the issue?

Regarding timelines for oxidation, I read this article (table II https://www.morebeer.com/articles/oxidation_in_beer) that gave me the impression that my 1 month at >20 C was not unreasonable, but you guys have gotten better mileage so hopefully I can figure out what's going wrong

Well based on this response, I think your issue is a combination of factors.
Here's your solution IMHO, and please any other brewers who disagree please correct me.


The carbonate in your water is very high and is probably contributing, so I would start by cutting your tap water with at least 50% (if not more) reverse osmosis filtered water (just pony up for a 5 gallon jug from the local grocery store, and refills are ~$10).

Next, try to eliminate oxygen as much as you can, both when the wort is hot, and after fermentation. Don't splash when transferring, so make sure your siphon tube is submerged in your "going-to" bucket. Also, make sure you fill your bottles about 1/3 of the way up the neck and cap promptly, and that your siphon tube isn't sucking air from anywhere.

Try to eliminate some of the trub getting into your bottles. I strongly suspect that the warm storage temps are causing yeast autolysis which is the big contributor to your problem. I BIAB as well, and I never worry about trub in the fermentor, BUT once your beer has dropped mostly clear, and your yeast cake has formed, DO NOT DISTURB IT. If you can cold crash, I recommend it, but it's not essential.

I would move the fermenter as gently as possible and let it sit after moving for 10-15 minutes. Rack from the fermenter over to a bottling bucket with your dextrose priming solution already in there, leaving as much yeast and trub behind as possible.

After bottling, wait your 2 weeks for carbonation to happen and then put your bottles in the fridge and store them cold as much as you can. Once they are ready for storage, you should avoid temperatures over 20C, but the colder the better for long term storage.

If there's anything else I've missed, someone please jump in! I really hope that helps man!

 

[halpinhe]

Thanks guys! I'll try being a bit more careful with my bottling procedure and then reassess. My water is indeed horrible for light hoppy beers, but I live in Holland and jugs of RO water go for ~40$ for 5 gallons so I haven't tried cutting it so far.

 

[Jawbox0]

I'd try cutting one batch down at least. How about a couple 1 gallon jugs of RO or distilled? Personally, I just went with an under the counter RO setup, it wasn't very expensive at was a simple setup. Filter replacements are pretty cheap.

 

[halpinhe]

Would love to go RO, but haven't found a solution yet here that makes sense for me (everything around two hundred bucks). May cut a batch with RO to give it a spin and change my mind tho.

 

[KepowOb]

I just found a few bottles of an RIS I brewed 2 years ago. It's been stored warm (23 to 24 in summer, 19 to 20 in winter). Far from ideal conditions, but it was drinkable. Actually, when I found them I figured they would be going down the drain, but I figured I'd give one a try first and I was pleasantly surprised.

So all that to say that, while warm storage is far from ideal, in the short term I really don't think it will kill your beers, though it will probably accelerate the appearance of problems in the beer.

As far as oxidization, one if my first beers... I did a terrible job bottling it. First ones were good enough, but being naive, I kept some to see how they'd hold up over time. The wet cardboard descriptor is spot on. It's the only time I had to dump some homebrew, it was terrible.

 

[jjeffers09]

How about small batch brewing? 1 gal, ~10 beers, 30 beers a month max. Should be easy to get rid of... If not we all know a guy lol

 

[halpinhe]

I guess for longer term ageing maybe a dark beer will be the way to go!
Regarding small batches: indeed I'm thinking that for APAs and hop forward beers I may go back to DME and make small batches. 1 gallon batch is just too much time commitment for all grain imo.