AG Equipment Musings / Questions / General Confusion

[mugglesport]

I’ve been brewing for a couple of years now (starting with extract then moving to partial mash) and am ready to step up to all-grain brewing. Where I’m struggling is on the equipment end and figuring out what all I need in order to make this move. Where I eventually want to end up is with a sturdy single-tier 10 gallon brewhouse along the lines of Brutus 10, Brew Magic, etc. in order to have a high level of consistency between my batches (and maybe one day could be the foundation of my very own nano-brewery!). I plan on building or buying something within the next couple of years, for what it’s worth. However, I think it would be smart for me to take an intermediate step in order to get comfortable with AG brewing, rather than dive head-first into an expensive and complicated system. So, the question is how do I get from where I am to being able to brew AG batches effectively and efficiently, and I can I do it piece-by-piece, or do I need to get several pieces of equipment all at once? My current “brewhouse” includes:

• 30 Quart stainless steel brew kettle (a tall, skinny turkey fryer, actually…and the thinnest stainless pot ever made).
• 8 Quart stainless stock pot for partial mashes / steeping (goes in the oven to keep it warm)
• 120,000 BTU propane stove
• “Large cooler of ice-water” wort chiller

Pretty much all of this (except maybe the stove) is obsolete. I have been planning making a MLT out of a 10 gallon cylindrical cooler. But this opens a whole can of worms:

• Is my brew kettle large enough for a full boil (I can boil 4 gallons but sometimes the hot break comes within a couple inches of the top of the kettle)?
• I will definitely need to finally get an immersion chiller, though I’d want one large enough to cool 10 gallon batches since that’s where I eventually want to be.
• What about hot liquor?

So basically, I’m not sure I can just build a MLT and brew all-grain. I think I’ll also need:

• A HLT (10 gallon cylindrical cooler)
• An immersion chiller (3/8” or ½” by 50’)
• Possibly a new kettle (keggle, I guess)

It seems like to effectively do AG brewing, I’ll need to do full boils, which will require a larger kettle, which will in turn require an immersion chiller (or something other than an ice bath).

Any thoughts on all this rambling? Can anyone give me any examples of a basic AG setup that I can build upon (i.e., the kettle could be used in a future single tier three vessel brewhouse)?

 

[shortyjacobs]

I brewed in a 30 qt. It's not ideal, but you can do full boils if you use Fermcap-S or similar.

Make a 50', 1/2" immersion chiller. That'll handle 10 gal easy, (3/8" probably will too though)

You need to make an MLT, that's a given, but MLT and IC are all you really have to make.

Heat strike water in your 30 qt, pour into MLT, add grain, mash.

Drain 1st runnings into a 5 gal ale pail.

Heat sparge water in 30 qt. Dump it in and batch sparge, or slowly fly sparge. If you batch sparge with 1 batch, add sparge water, then lauter into your 30 qt. dump in 1st runnings wort from the ale pail, heat it up and boil. If you batch sparge with 2 batches, dump in 1st batch, drain into ale pail with 1st runnings, heat and dump 2nd batch, lauter into your 30 qt and dump in 1st and 2nd runnings from ale pail. If you fly sparge (which is tough because you won't have good temp control since you won't have an insulated "HLT), drain sparge water out of 30 qt while running into ale pail. Then dump into 30 qt and boil.

What I'm saying here is, for cheapsies you can get going.

If you want to make it a bit easier on yourself, buy a $20 pot from Target and use that as a BK, and your 30 qt as the HLT. If you batch sparge, you don't need an insulated HLT, so any pot will do.

 

[mugglesport]

Thanks, that's a great idea!

Another thing I forgot to mention about using an IC is that my tap water is almost 80* in the summer. I guess I could just get a prechiller (should the tubing diameter be the same as the IC or can the IC have larger tubing?). But I've also been pondering recirculation in order to save water. If I went ahead and built a 10 gallon cooler HLT, I could (after the boil) fill it with ice water and pump that throught the IC. I could either buy a cheap submersible sump pump or go ahead and buy a decent pump (e.g., March, etc.) an anticipation of building the 10 gal brewhouse I mentioned in the original post.

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it....If I'm using a sump pump I could just utilize my existing big-ass cooler that I've been using as an ice bath...

 

[shortyjacobs]

A prechiller is a great idea, and it doesn't need to be nearly as beefy as your IC, (25' 1/4" or 3/8" are common).

Recirculating in ice water works, however if you work out the math, you'll find you need around 40 lbs of ice to chill a 5 gal batch.....better to use tap water in the IC at first to drop wort temp from 212*F to around 140*F or less, then switch to either recirculation or prechiller to get it down to 60-70*F

 

[mugglesport]

Hmm. With the ice bath, I've been using 20 lbs of ice to get the wort down to about 70...but it does take quite a while (30-45 minutes).

Speaking of math, and maybe this is a question for another thread...and I know it's a question that's been beat to death, but I don't think I could build an immersion chiller (after buying the materials, torch, learning to solder) for less than the cost of this: http://morebeer.com/view_product/19...n_batches_50ft_of_1_2_in._With_Brass_Fittings

 

[wilserbrewer]

While maybe not the easiest or best method, I feel you could brew 5 gallons today w/ the equipment you have plus a BIAB grain bag. Mash BIAB style either in your 30 qt pot or the cooler. Using the pot you could also do a mashout and a dunk sparge in the cooler. Transfer all runings to the pot and boil. Chill the pot in the cooler w/ a water bath followed by an ice bath. Or the lazy mans no chill method...put a lid on the pot and pich yeast a day later when cool. Happy brewing!

 

[shortyjacobs]

Hmm. With the ice bath, I've been using 20 lbs of ice to get the wort down to about 70...but it does take quite a while (30-45 minutes).

Speaking of math, and maybe this is a question for another thread...and I know it's a question that's been beat to death, but I don't think I could build an immersion chiller (after buying the materials, torch, learning to solder) for less than the cost of this: http://morebeer.com/view_product/19...n_batches_50ft_of_1_2_in._With_Brass_Fittings

Yikes, that's expensive.

I bought 50' of 1/2" copper from Menards for $38. A garden hose fitting with a barb on it, and some tubing, and I was done. Slide tubing over copper pipe, and hose clamp it. Hose clamp the other side of the tubing over the garden hose fitting barb. You can solder it to, and buy the torch, and all that crap, but you can do it the super easy way as well. Mine cost less than $50 total. If I'd had to buy a torch, those can be found for ~$10, so still nearly half price compared to MoreBeer...but to each their own.

 

[mugglesport]

How long ago did you buy your copper? I checked Home Depot earlier this week (never heard of Menards) and they did not have any 50' tubing and I believe 25' of 1/2" was $40. I'll check Lowe's tonight.

Even here it's $62: https://coppertubingsales.com/store...ucts_id=755&osCsid=kfkogvt4hjbohbkq3m8v4miu86

I'd love to DIY, but I'd want it really well made and the thought of making rough bends around a paint can (don't have any kegs or friends with kegs), potentially kinking it when bending the inlet/outlet (guess i could buy and then return a pipe bender), and using hose clamps just makes me think I'll be ruining $60 bucks worth of copper.

EDIT: just checked HD & Lowes websites and both show 50' of 1/2" at $80. I figure $10 for hose clamps, garden hose fittings, etc. Then I'm at $90 plus tax ($97.43) and I still have to take it home and potentailly mess it up. So for $10 more (free shipping from MoreBeer) I can have someone else make it and it will have soldered fittings. I know I could make an IC for much cheaper if i used 25' of 1/4" line, but that's apples to oranges.

 

[shortyjacobs]

Yeah, can't argue with that logic. I bought mine a year ago. Lowes was around 50 or 55 at the time, I think. Menards is the "Walmart" of home improvement stores .

 

[mugglesport]

An update (if anyone was watching this thread):

I built a MLT. I got a 10 gal Rubbermaid cooler from Lowes (regularly $50, but I printed out the item from Home Depot's website, which has it for less, and Lowes took another 10% off, so in total it was around $35. The Lowe's version is red instead of orange and seems a bit thicker walled). I bought parts for a bulkhead/valve (had to order the SS fender washer from Fastenal, just came in today) and made a bazooka screen out of a 12" piece of SS water supply line. I took some 14 gauge copper romex wire, stripped it clean, wrapped it around a wooden dowel, then stretched it out and inserted in the SS braid. It's really strong and seems crushproof (unless I step on it or something).

I also sumbled onto a newly converted keggle and will be picking that up this weekend.

So I'm all set for my first AG batch, I think, other than building an IC. Now I just need to figure out what my first AG batch should be. I've been craving Saison...