AG buying questions / opinions needed

[67coupe390]

I think I'm ready for the world of all grain brewing. I would like to buy a set up from my home brew store. What he would sell me is (2) 5 gal round igloo coolers, a false bottom for one of the coolers to use as a mash/lauter tun and a sparge arm. I think it comes with fittings and hose as well. $100.00 for all. I have all the equipment for doing extract brewing plus a new 9 gal pot. Do you think that it is a good price? And is there anything else that is a "must have" that I'm missing? Do I need to learn how to calculate eff.? If I just follow the reciepe to a "t" will it come out O.K.?
Thanks for any advise!!! Nick

 

[Orfy]

So I guess you plan to boil you're mash water in your 9 gallon pot then transfer to your mash tun. Then heat your sparge water and transfer to the second igloo for supplying to the mash tun (fly sparging)

If you batch sparge I'm not sure why you'd need the second cooler.

Basically you need Something to heat the water in. Your mash tun and your boil kettle.

 

[RichBrewer]

$100.00 seems like a decent price. The one thing you will need in addition is a propane burner. You may want to eventually get a 10 gallon cooler for your Mash/Lauter tun. The 5 gallon cooler will be tight for big beers.
Let us know how it goes.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

For that price you can build yourself a ten gallon setup. I guarantee you will sooner or later want one. Probably sooner. Go big. Or, if you really want to wait before getting the big system, you can go REALLY cheap and just buy the sparge arm. Then go to Wal-Mart and buy a plastic colander for $3, cut the rim off of it, and stuff it down to the bottom of your bottling bucket, just above the spigot. Then you have an instant redneck-rigged mash tun. Wrap an old blanket around it to hold temp, and you're set. Believe it or not, that was my first AG setup. I used it for a year while I was watching for deals on coolers. As anyone around here can attest, I hate to see people waste money on those 5-gal coolers because they always outgrow them. good luck!

 

[ajf]

Seems like a good price if that is what you want. I use 2 5g coolers like you're considering. If I want to get an O.G. over about 1.075, then I simply brew a 3g batch instead of 5.
The sparge arm and false bottom work great for fly sparging, but you could batch sparge, in which case the sparge arm would not be necessary. However, if you batch sparge, a bigger lauter tun would be a good idea if you brew stronger beers.

Good luck.

-a.

 

[67coupe390]

I'm not sure what batch sparge is. Is it mashing at one temp. for a set time in a large cooler, then adding all the rest of the water need for the batch and raising the temp. Then sparging?

 

[Orfy]

Close. It,s really just sparging by adding the water in bulk rather than slow rinsing.
Some say the efficiency is not as good. But I think the time benefit and not getting stuck sparges makes up for it. I find that I'm hitting target figures because a lot of recipes presume about a 70% efficiency


The way I do it is.

(Single infusion mash)

Add water to the mash to get the required ratio on temp. Leave for 60-90 minutes in an insulated container so the temp is stable.
Drain the wort.

(Batch sparge)

Add the sparge water (or as much as will fit) to the drained grain. stir and leave for 5 minutes. Drain and repeat until you have enough water or until the wort gravity drops to 1010.

This is the simplest way of putting the kit together I could find.
http://www.ushould.co.uk/brew/

 

[Blender]

Your setup is for fly sparging. There is another somewhat simpler way and that is batch sparging. You would only need one cooler doing it this way. I batch sparge and I would recommend a rectangular cooler somewhere in the range of 48 quarts. There is a nice explanantion here on batch sparging. Read some more and come back with questions before you buy. It is a little confusing at first.
Link > http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

 

[67coupe390]

So what I need to buy is a rectangular 48qt cooler and a 10 gal bazooka screen? And to batch sparge I would mash for 60-90 min. Then drain all sweet wort to the boil pot. Then add the other half of the water, to mash tun stir and wait 5 min. Drain that and thats my wort? Do I have to increase the temp. of the water I add?

 

[Blender]

So what I need to buy is a rectangular 48qt cooler and a 10 gal bazooka screen? And to batch sparge I would mash for 60-90 min. Then drain all sweet wort to the boil pot. Then add the other half of the water, to mash tun stir and wait 5 min. Drain that and thats my wort? Do I have to increase the temp. of the water I add?

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. I modified my cooler just like the one in the link and it does not leak.You do have to add water at differnet temps.You can make stainless screen from a water supply line sold in harware stores. You will need a good and accurate thermometer. You do need to account for grain absobtion and dead space in your system but that is easy. I also would recommend getting some brewing software like Promash or Beersmith.

 

[Blender]

Another link on one way to modify a cooler. Link>http://yellowdogbrewery.com/BAMT.aspx

 

[ajf]

Duh!

I suggested you could save the cost of a sparge arm by batch sparging.

Completely forgot to mention you would also save the cost of the second cooler.

Good job Blender was awake.

-a.

 

[67coupe390]

Another link on one way to modify a cooler. Link>http://yellowdogbrewery.com/BAMT.aspx

I can make this! Cool! And it is cheaper than what I was oing to buy! What will the promash do for me? I have a hydrometer do I need a tall skinny tube too?

 

[MariaAZ]

I'm planning to try a small AG batch, and was wondering about the system Papazian describes in "The Joy of Homebrewing". He uses two 5 gal buckets nested into each other. The inner bucket has small holes drilled through the bottom to act as a false bottom for the outer bucket.

I have several food-quality buckets to play with, and I'd like to give this batch sparge system a try. I'm assuming the more grain that is directly exposed to the hot water, the better. In order to maximize efficiency, how deep can the grain bed be? I'm thinking this would be the limiting factor on how large a batch I can make.

 

[Orfy]

It just depends on the size of your cooler. With batch sparging I don't think it matters in the depth of the grain bed like it may with fly sparging.

I use a rectangular cooling for batching, most seem to use circular for fly sparging.

 

[67coupe390]

Another link on one way to modify a cooler. Link>http://yellowdogbrewery.com/BAMT.aspx

I'm going to make this today, do I need any other stuff?

 

[Blender]

I'm going to make this today, do I need any other stuff?

You will need to do full boils. I would recommend at least an 8 gallon kettle with a 10 gallon preferred. You will probably need a propane burner. Then you have to cool the wort after the boil so a chiller system is needed. There is some start up costs. You don't really need software to begin with but sometime down the road it is very usefull for formulating your recipes. What equipment do you have currently?

 

[Onescalerguy]

Fantastic photo Orfy!I don't know how you got both dogs to pose but I love it.:rockin:
Cheers

 

[Orfy]

Cheers They are good dogs.

 

[sudsmonkey]

Don't let him fool you. He promised them both a beer!

 

[Orfy]

They're pissed and can't move.

A little story for ya'.

Foxxie (can you guess which one) was our only dog for a while. She used to come the pub with me and enjoyed a half mild in an ashtray on the floor. Other punters saw this and I didn't have to buy a half mild because they'd let her have a splash of theirs. I'd only let here have half for obvious reasons. After a few samples of Guinness she turned her nose up at mild and would only take Guinness . One day I walked past the pub and went in on here own. I had to go retrieve her. Another day she saw a pool ball fly from the table and chased it to the merriment of the players. when they got it back off her (took some doing) and put it on the table she followed it and jumped on the table.
I finally stopped taking her when I moved. She was getting older and too used to a drop of the black gold. Plus I took me eye off here one night and she got pissed. (Not good)

 

[67coupe390]

You will need to do full boils. I would recommend at least an 8 gallon kettle with a 10 gallon preferred. You will probably need a propane burner. Then you have to cool the wort after the boil so a chiller system is needed. There is some start up costs. You don't really need software to begin with but sometime down the road it is very usefull for formulating your recipes. What equipment do you have currently?

I have a 9 gal pot and a wort chiller (50' coil). What do you mean by full boil?

 

[Orfy]

I have a 9 gal pot and a wort chiller (50' coil). What do you mean by full boil?

That should be adequate. Full boil means boiling all the wort rather than some of it and topping up the feremnter with water.

 

[Blender]

I have a 9 gal pot and a wort chiller (50' coil). What do you mean by full boil?

Yeah that equipment will work out fine. I have an 8 gallon kettle and a 5 gallon kettle. I use the 5 gallon kettle to heat sparging water after the first runoff.I usually capture 7.5 gallons of wort to boil down to around 5.5 after an hour or more. I ferment 5.5 gallons so that after all the transfering I end up with a good 5 gallons of beer. Once you get your cooler assembled fill it with 2 gallons of hot water and let it drain. Determine how much water will not drain and you can factor that amount in as deadspace. I tilt the cooler when draining to get the most out of it. With batch sparging getting a good grain crush is important. If your local shop does it make try to make sure they they crush it pretty fine. If you think you will be brewing for a good while then if you can afford a crusher that will give additional control over your brewing process. It really solidified my brewing.The first 2-3 batches you will learn a lot on how your system works so efficiency may not be as good as planned. Take a lot of notes and you will be set for the future.

 

[67coupe390]

If any one has a promash or beersmith they want to sell??? I went to my home brew store and he was not liking the cooler idea. He was really short with me too so I forgot to spend as much money there as I was going to. It sucks because hes so close to my house. Now I have to go 10 miles away to get supplies.

 

[Blender]

You can download and use Beersmith for 3 weeks for evaluation. Then it is 20.00. You can use Promash but cannot save or print for evaluation. The LBS guy seems rather petty. Not good for business either.

 

[dcbrewmeister]

If any one has a promash or beersmith they want to sell??? I went to my home brew store and he was not liking the cooler idea. He was really short with me too so I forgot to spend as much money there as I was going to. It sucks because hes so close to my house. Now I have to go 10 miles away to get supplies.

Just download the trial of beersmith from beersmith.com. Promash is not as "friendly" in the long run, but it has it's following.

You pissed him off (LHBS store guy) because you didn't buy from him. I have one shop in town I can go too, and he's a bit of a jerk. My other choice is to drive 74 miles and go to AHS in Austin. Or online and have it shipped to me. I wish I had another shop to go to in town, I wouldn't give my local guy the time of day.

Just remember one thing - as helpfull as a shop owner "seems", any shop owner in business to make money and nothing more.

 

[Orfy]

He's probably pissed that you took the advice of some strange internet place rather than his. I've seen it before. Some people hate it when you don't do as they suggest.

 

[the_bird]

If any one has a promash or beersmith they want to sell??? I went to my home brew store and he was not liking the cooler idea. He was really short with me too so I forgot to spend as much money there as I was going to. It sucks because hes so close to my house. Now I have to go 10 miles away to get supplies.

Hell with him. I love my LHBS, he tells us that he doesn't mind when we buy stuff online, the competition keeps him on his toes. He's also just a good guy all around, buy enough stuff and he starts giving you some of it for free ("oh, by the way - the 2-row's free").

If you've got another shop within ten miles (BASTID!), I think you know what to do....

 

[jcarson83]

I think batch sparge is the way to go. So much easier and less equipment than fly sparge. I use the SS braid and haven't had a stuck sparge yet (except for when I forgot to put it on at all).

You LHBSG should be happy that you buy ingredients from him. He knows that hes ripping you off on the equipment.