AG brewing: 3 aluminum/SS pots vs 1 pot and 2 coolers.

[CanadianQuaffer]

Which is better?

I'm tempted by both and I've read upon the pros and cons of either system but I'm hoping some shared practical experience and opinions can help me further decide which system to go with.

Thanks!

Nick

 

[Waterboy42]

I have two ten gallon coolers I converted, with a false bottom in the MLT cooler that I put together for a little over $100. Works great, and I can keep constant temps for well over an hour when mashing. Cheapest and easiest way to make the leap to all grain IMHO.

 

[Golddiggie]

Coolers do tend to hold temps well, but I always had an issue getting the grain bed up to sparge/mash-out temps when using one. Since I've started using a converted keg (for the mash tun) it's gotten much easier. Basically, I direct fire it, and recirculate the wort to avoid scorching as it heats. Once it's at temp, I kill the flame and just hold the temp (many ways to insulate the keg, currently experimenting with a carbon fiber welding blanket). If I need to add some more heat, it's easy to do.

For the sparge water, I simply use a pot converted into a HLT that gravity feeds my auto sparge. I've used that twice so far, and expect to have it fully dialed-in with the next batch.

You have so many different options/choices for the setup it's almost funny. IF you want to go really cheap, go BIAB. When you decide you're done lifting heavy grain bags out of kettles/pots and making all kinds of a mess, you can step to the cooler mash tun (you have so many choices on how to set that up too).

Personally, I've done BIAB, cooler mash tuns, and now the keggle mash tun (Jaybird false bottom :rockin and can't see ever going back to BIAB for anything other than an extremely rare case. Or for a 1/2 batch (2.5-3 gallons into fermenter).

I would advise looking at how much you want to spend, or can afford to spend, and get the gear to match. If possible connect up with some other home brewers that have different hardware sets to see how they use them. That will give you better insight as to which way could work better for you. Once you've done that, get the gear to match.

 

[CanadianQuaffer]

Thanks for the input guys.

@Waterboy...yeah, I'm tempted to go with coolers 'cos, call me crazy, but I like the looks of a cooler set up.

@Golddiggie...I've done 2 BIAB brews so far...first time with a friend, second time on my own. WAY easier with a friend...it got exponentially harder on my own. I like the simplicity and cost of BIAB but I've always been one to do things as authentically as possible, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a commercial brewery on Earth that does BIAB! lol

So many options to weigh...at least I have BIAB for now.

 

[Golddiggie]

CQ, when you grow tired of BIAB, look for a keg, or two, to convert. I found mine via Craigslist and got it for pretty cheap money. I often see them posted online, and have been tempted to score a few more (still might). With decent hardware selection, you can make the brewing process easier on you. Plus, as you mentioned, you can get it to more closely match what the big boys do.

I've since picked up the tools to convert a keg on my own (did the first one at a friends house). Having a few power tools goes a long way in this case. Such as a good drill and right angle grinder (both of mine are 18v DeWalt cordless models).

I do aspire to one day be brewing full time, as my career/income source. Until that happens, I'm content knowing that I'm honing my skills and craft towards that goal. Equipment can change, and slightly alter how you do things, but the basics are eternal (IMO)... We'll always need to mash and sparge the grain to create our wort. We'll always need to ready the wort for the yeast, and the yeast for the wort. We'll always need to treat the yeast right once added to the wort and protect them from unwanted elements (sort of like children I suppose). In that context, I probably have had trillions of children that have been born, done their life's work, and perished already. At least they gave me something good to remember them by...

Just remember, when you're getting ready to make a hardware purchase, ask yourself if it will make your brewing easier and/or better. If you cannot answer an honest yes to either/both, then don't do it. IMO, moving from IC to cool my wort, to a plate chiller was one such step.

 

[chapa]

1 pot - no cooler. No sparge either. Brew in a bag(sorry, I'm a fanboy . I know you were asking opinions on those systems, but I have a 3 vessel with 2 converted kegs and a cooler mlt, and I still use my BIAB system over the 3 vessel unless I'm doing 10g batches. I love the simplicity of it.

Edit: Golddiggie beat me to it

 

[Golddiggie]

BIAB was ok for smaller grain bills, with the pots I had (8 gallon was the largest). Once I decided I wanted to brew something bigger/better, I simply couldn't do it. So, along came the first cooler mash tun conversion. Folllowed by a second, followed by the previously mentioned keg conversion. Even my brew buddy has slid from BIAB to using [my 10 gallon RubberMaid converted] cooler mash tun. He can now easily mash up to about 25# of grain, where he was pushing things to the red line with anything over 14-15# before. I suppose if you get a large enough kettle, you could do BIAB. But, lifting that saturated sack of grain from the kettle isn't easy. Plus, getting it to drain really well takes much more effort IMO...

I would probably consider BIAB for something with a total grist of under 10# in the future. That pretty much rules out all of my recipes, for 5 gallon batches (or larger). I might be able to brew a 3 gallon batch that way.

 

[Waterboy42]

I'm at the point where BIAB was a hassle and stepped up. It immensely made my brew days easier for a modest space and monetary investment. I liked the easy DIY of putting the coolers together. At the same time I fabbed an IC for next to nothing.

I look at my brewing as an evolutionary process. As space and money allow, I'll upgrade accordingly. Each minor upgrade I've made has improved the end result. Its a hobby that at the end offers me another of my favorite passtimes . . . Drinking finely crafted beer to my tastes.

@Gold, interested to hear the results on the welding blanket insulator. Keggles will be my next step with a direct fired MLT.

 

[Golddiggie]

Waterboy42, with the first batch, using bungee cords to secure the blanket, I lost 2-3F over 90 minutes. I'm debating gluing the blanket to the keg mash tun, or using snaps to hold it in place. I have glue that is rated for up to 2300F, which should be plenty. I am thinking of adding another section to the blanket, as the seasons get colder, making for three thicknesses all the way around (at 1-1/2 now). I'm also thinking about replacing the snaps for Velcro...

Once I have it finished, I'll post pictures in my gallery...

 

[Mermaid]

I did one of those 5 ga. Rubbermaid cooler conversions to a MLT over the summer, and it was easier (and cheaper) than I thought it would be. Prior to doing this I was mashing in a 5 ga. kettle using BIAB and it was a pain in the ass. While it worked just fine it was messy and heavy, and I figured it was time to try something else.

I had been splitting my boil between 2 5 ga. kettles but that too, was imperfect and aggrivating trying to bring 2 kettles to boil on a cheap kitchen stove.

I just bought a patio burner and 36 qt. kettle (Amazon.com) so that I can do a full boil in 1 kettle without turning my kitchen into a sauna. When I move next year, if I end up in an apartment without a patio I'll just drag all the gear over to my sister's place and use her patio I'm sorta lazy, and like simplicity. Would rather worry about stuff like recipe tweaking, hop schedules, and trying out different yeasts than worrying about maintaining mash temps, getting the kettles to boil, or lifting a bag full of heavy wet grain.. drip... drip.. drip.

 

[CanadianQuaffer]

@Gold, there's a guy near me who's selling two 15.5 Sanke Kegs for 100 bucks each...that a good deal? I can get two 17 gallon aluminum stock pots at a nearby store for 80 bucks each, or two 9 gallon aluminum pots for 60 bucks each. Although I'm not looking to do 10 gallon batches anytime soon.
Gonna stick in the 5 gallon range for a while.

 

[CanadianQuaffer]

@Mermaid, I bought a 9 gallon turkey fryer witha strainer basket for my BIAB brews. The bag lines the strainer basket so I don't need to worry about lifting the back, just teh basket by the handle, but you're right about the mess, unless you have someone to help you.

 

[Golddiggie]

Not sure what that would be in US dollars, but unless they are in great shape, I'd look around some more. I scored my current 1/2 bbl keg for $40 a few months back. I also got a 50L (13.3 gallon) keg for about the same (very good condition too). I do pay a bit more for kegs to ferment in, but that's also because I do so little to them. Basically, depressurize them, pull the valve stem out, and they're ready for me to use. With ones getting converted, you'll also have the expense of ball valves, dip tubes, etc... Although that also applies for pots.

I would compare stainless pots to the kegs, for pricing. You cannot compare them to aluminum pots. I can get 10 gallon aluminum pots for cheap money (under $50 each). Stainless, is more.

Contact the person selling the kegs. See if he'll take ~$75 each for them. Cry poor, or inform him of how much you'll still need to invest in them before you can actually use them. He should still be making money, over what he's lost on the deposit. Or find out what the current keg deposit rate is, or what it was when he got the kegs (try to find out without acting like you're fishing)...

I did see an ad for a keg, local to me, for $75 yesterday. I need to find out where the person is, so I can check it out. Even though I'm not ready to convert/use it right now, it won't hurt to get one and have it in reserve for later.

 

[CanadianQuaffer]

100 bucks Canadian is about 100 bucks US, we've pretty much been on par for the last few years, but everything in Canada tends to be about 25-50% more expensive regardless.

 

[Golddiggie]

Then see if you can negotiate to a slightly lower price on the pair of the kegs... Offer $150 for the pair and see what he/she counters with. You don't HAVE to just pay what they've posted for the price. Hell, I even offered less for an O2 regulator with a flow meter on it, and it was accepted. More than covers the cost of getting the extra fitting I need in order to use it too.

 

[chapa]

I have a 10g pot, so I can do about 8g strike water with 15lbs of grain, and I do it outside. I also put the bag inside of the basket, and when I go to pull the basket, I'll just set it in a small pot on top of a colander to drain. A little more messy for clean up, but I just like not having to bring all of equipment out, since its not on a cart or in a stationary spot.