Aeration freakin me out!

[scottpureds]

Hello yall. I just started my first batch of cider yesterday and it is glub glubbing away at like a bubble a second right now. I'm following directions from howtomakehardcider.com and saw nothing there or in my other research about aeration or the dangers of oxygen turning my cider into vinegar until I came here... So now I'm freaked lol.

I understand that oxygen is good for yeast bad for cider so I have two questions and welcome all additional advice on the topic!

1. I am fermenting 3 gallons of juice in a 5 gal jug. Since fermentation has started well and it smells good as of now am i safe or should I worry about the 2gallons of air I have in my caraboy?

2. When transferring to my secondary I will use an autosiphon and tubing to a second 5 gal caraboy... How do I prevent aeration during this stage?

All advice is greatly appreciated! I'm so excited to have found this forum! Thanks in advance!!!

 

[BigJack]

1. The CO2 produced from fermentation will push oxygen out and fill up that headspace during primary fermentation. No worries.

2. You either need to find a 3 gallon fermenter to use as your secondary OR you need some way to purge the 5 gallon fermenter with CO2 before the transfer and pump some CO2 in after to be sure.

 

[scottpureds]

Thanks bigjack! So on step 2 if I cant purge the oxygen am I guaranteed vinegar or is it a gamble?

 

[BigJack]

I don't know about guaranteed, but it is a real risk.

 

[D-west]

Thanks bigjack! So on step 2 if I cant purge the oxygen am I guaranteed vinegar or is it a gamble?

I have a gallon of apple cider vinegar on my shelf.... It was my second attempt at cider.

I use a 6gal primary and 5gal secondary, I fill the 6gal up with 5 1/4gal (ish).

This gives me plenty of wiggle room for head space when leaving some in the bottom of the primary when I rack.

Another option for you if you want to play with flavor and carbonation is to get 3, one gallon jugs and try different things with each to see what you like, sweetening, carbonating etc.

 

[WVMJ]

Easy way would be to add 2 more gallons of apple juice and make 5 gallons of cider or get a 3 gallon carboy and not have to worry. Are you adding sulfites to prevent oxidation? WVMJ

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Easy way would be to add 2 more gallons of apple juice and make 5 gallons of cider or get a 3 gallon carboy and not have to worry. Are you adding sulfites to prevent oxidation? WVMJ

Reduce headspace & get more cider, that's a win/win solution!
Regards, GF.

 

[DaMonkey]

Thanks bigjack! So on step 2 if I cant purge the oxygen am I guaranteed vinegar or is it a gamble?

Just don't let it sit long in secondary if you only have a large carboy. Let it clear, 1 week (if you used pectin enzymes) and then bottle it. It can age in the bottle just fine. Also if you use sulfites and sorbate once you put it into the secondary you should be fine.

 

[scottpureds]

Thanks all for the great responses. I am not planning on using sulfites, and I did not use any pectin as clarity dont bother me just yet.

I guess I could skip the secondary this time and just bottle after exhausting the yeast. I am planning on mixing priming sugar to the whole batch before bottling so as the carbonationg should be consistent but I guess that will be harder with all the eyast in the primary getting mixed up. Hmm....

I also figure there has to be an easy (and cheap) way to pump the secondary with co2... I never had any handgun bb guns but I do know those little co2 cartridges are useful for a number of things... have to keep researching though...

Any ideas on co2 sources?

And last, is the issue that the drink not hit oxygen at all? As in from siphoning to closing the secondary OR its ok as long as it doesnt sit in oxygen, like I fill the secondary THEN purge it?

Thanks!!!

 

[Maylar]

If you bottle directly from primary you risk having some sediment in your bottled cider, since it takes time to clear after fermentation is complete. If that's OK with you then you can skip secondary - though I have had people notice a "yeasty" taste to my cider when I've left it in primary too long. Kinda have to weigh the consequences and decide for yourself.

As for oxygen, I always get some air in the siphon during racking and have never noticed any off flavors that I could associate with that. I don't know (yet) how much air is too much, and hope to never know. Before I got a CO2 tank I was letting my secondary sit with head space for a week or so and have not experienced any oxidation issues.
Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[scottpureds]

Thanks mylar! I went ahead bit the bullet and bought a 3 gal. Problem solved and I will continue my quest to learn EVERYTHING about hard cider, additives and aeration lol.

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[ericbw]

Thanks all for the great responses. I am not planning on using sulfites, and I did not use any pectin as clarity dont bother me just yet.

I guess I could skip the secondary this time and just bottle after exhausting the yeast. I am planning on mixing priming sugar to the whole batch before bottling so as the carbonationg should be consistent but I guess that will be harder with all the eyast in the primary getting mixed up. Hmm....

I also figure there has to be an easy (and cheap) way to pump the secondary with co2... I never had any handgun bb guns but I do know those little co2 cartridges are useful for a number of things... have to keep researching though...

Any ideas on co2 sources?

And last, is the issue that the drink not hit oxygen at all? As in from siphoning to closing the secondary OR its ok as long as it doesnt sit in oxygen, like I fill the secondary THEN purge it?

Thanks!!!

I don't know for sure, but I doubt a little cartridge would have enough to purge a 5 gallon carboy. I think the brief exposure to oxygen during racking is pretty limited. Try not to splash, etc. You also have some C02 coming out of solution, which helps to push oxygen out of the way as well.

Adding sulfites (a campden tablet per gallon) helps as an antioxidant. I crush the tablets and mix in a little water to dissolve (takes some time), add that to the empty carboy, then rack onto it. It swirls and mixes.