Advice on grain bill

[DJDBrew]

Hey all,

Just wanted to get some input if possible on a grain bill I have for an IPA I plan on brewing this weekend. The grain bill is as follows:

10# US 2-Row
2# Crystal 40L
.5# Honey Malt

I have been doing some research on the subject and am now wondering if I should cut down the crystal and honey malt down to 1# and .25# respectively. I want there to be some sweetness to this so that's why I threw in the honey malt. Just kinda sounded good . Maybe by cutting down the amounts and mashing at 154 would do it?

Any advice or critiques would be appreciated. This IPA will use simcoe for bittering and citra for flavor and aroma. The yeast I am using is Wyeast 1272.

Thanks!

 

[Davemci]

I made an amber with8 Lb 2 row and 2 Lb crystal 40. I wish I cut back on the crystal because it's a bit too sweet for me. I dry hopped the sh!t out of it to counter the sweet and it deffinetly helped. Also the crystal was from the Colorado malting comp and I should have known it was goin to be so sweet and fresh.

 

[scottballz]

Yeah 2# of crystal is a lot, especially with the .5# of honey malt. It will def come out sweet. depending on your IBU's I would cut it back a little. Otherwise, Like Davemci said, you will have to dry hop the sh!t out of it just to balance it out.

 

[Pappers_]

I also think that cutting back the crystal is a good idea, I would consider cutting it to 0.5 lbs, approximately 5% of the grainbill.

 

[DJDBrew]

Thanks for all the quick replies!

I had been reading about some recipes that don't even use crystal at all in their IPA's but I do like the malty sweetness it brings. So I think I will back it down to 1# and .25# of the crystal and honey malt respectively. Would mashing lower say 150 help out as well or would you stick with a 152 mash temp?

I do plan on putting a good bit of hops in. IBU's of the recipe come out to about 68-69.

 

[IslandLizard]

A few nights ago I had about 6 different commercial IPA samples and found all of them having a thick mouthfeel and on the sweet side, much sweeter than many homebrew IPAs. They were all around 7-8% ABV. I wonder if that's a trend. I also wondered how they do it. It almost feels like they don't let it ferment all the way out, filter the yeast out and maybe even sweeten it back. For example, I find Stone's Enjoy by fairly sweet, but low on the sweetness scale compared to many others.

But you should brew what you like and if you prefer some extra sweetness go for it. You can get sweetness from extra crystal, specialty malts, higher mash temps, longer boils (more caramelization), less attenuating yeast and any combination of those factors.

 

[NathPowe]

I'll agree with the others on cutting the crystal back. I'd probably also cut the Honey malt to .25lb. Then make up the difference with 2-row. I'd probably do something like this:

12lbs 2-row
.5lb C40
.25lb Honey Malt

Also if it's feasible, I'd find something else to bitter with (Magnum, Warrior, etc.) and use that Simcoe as a late addition and/or dry hop (ideally both) with the Citra. It's a really great flavor/aroma hop. Finally, I'd mash it at 149 or so, but I like my IPA's dry.

Just my two cents. Cheers and enjoy the brew.

 

[Bobbybob]

It seems like the trend I am seeing of late is super thin hop delivery water. I like a bit thicker IPA. I personally think you will want to go light on the crystal malts so as not to distract form the malt/hop balance. But you should brew what you like.

 

[DJDBrew]

It seems like the trend I am seeing of late is super thin hop delivery water. I like a bit thicker IPA. I personally think you will want to go light on the crystal malts so as not to distract form the malt/hop balance. But you should brew what you like.

I'm with you on the thicker IPA style. That's hopefully what I will end up with. I enjoy the maltier IPA's and not just full on hop bombs that have been popping up recently. We will see how this one turns out. Either way it will be tasty and I should be able to find some one to help me drink it .

That's the beauty of homebrew. Come up with an idea, try it out, and if it's not what your looking for, tweak it until it is.

Cheers!

 

[cernst151]

I agree with everyone here. I would rarely put more than .25 of each of those sweet malts in an IPA unless I'm hopping the crap out of it. I have gone up to 1# of combined sweet malts for a huge DIPA with a pound of hops (including dry hops) in a hop bomb near the end but unless you're balancing a ton of hops I wouldn't go that high.

BobbyBob, I don't like making or drinking hop delivery water but I definitely try to find that balance of malt and hops. With more hops I want more body. While I like a big hoppy IPA I can also appreciate a lighter bodied lightly hopped pounder on a hot summer day. I suppose then you're getting out of the IPA range though.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I'm with you on the thicker IPA style. That's hopefully what I will end up with. I enjoy the maltier IPA's and not just full on hop bombs that have been popping up recently.

Sweet, malty and thick are three different things. Crystal malt I suppose will give you all of them. Non-crystal specialty malts like Munich, Biscuit and home-toasted malt will give you maltiness without much sweetness or body, as will using basemalts like Maris Otter, Vienna etc.. instead of standard 2-row. A high mash temp will give you a thicker beer, but the unfermentables it leaves behind aren't particularly sweet. Using non-barley grains like wheat, rye or oats can accomplish something similar.

Most of the DIPA/IPAs I brew tend to finish around 1.012. I don't use sugar and use little or no crystal malt. Since I don't want just hop-water, I try to use some toasted malts or an interesting yeast to add some more dimensions to the beer. I've also found that the fruitiness and stickiness you get from ridiculous levels of dry-hops can help with perceived sweetness. Crystal malt isn't evil, but there's a lot of other ways to improve an IPA.

 

[DJDBrew]

Sweet, malty and thick are three different things. Crystal malt I suppose will give you all of them. Non-crystal specialty malts like Munich, Biscuit and home-toasted malt will give you maltiness without much sweetness or body, as will using basemalts like Maris Otter, Vienna etc.. instead of standard 2-row. A high mash temp will give you a thicker beer, but the unfermentables it leaves behind aren't particularly sweet. Using non-barley grains like wheat, rye or oats can accomplish something similar.

Most of the DIPA/IPAs I brew tend to finish around 1.012. I don't use sugar and use little or no crystal malt. Since I don't want just hop-water, I try to use some toasted malts or an interesting yeast to add some more dimensions to the beer. I've also found that the fruitiness and stickiness you get from ridiculous levels of dry-hops can help with perceived sweetness. Crystal malt isn't evil, but there's a lot of other ways to improve an IPA.

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely remember that as I am completely new to creating my own recipes. I do plat on picking up 'Brewing Classic Styles' in order to give me a better understanding of the different base malts and specialty grains and how they can be used to get a certain effect. I'd like to get a few solid 'house' brews down that I know I like and can brew with relative consistency. Eventually I will be brewing for my sister-in-laws wedding (whenever that happens) and would like to have a few brews that I can replicate for that day and be crowd-pleasers.

 

[DJDBrew]

Just a quick update on this recipe.

I ended up cutting down the cyrystal and honey malt by half and ended up making this a Passion Fruit IPA and racked onto 3lbs of passion fruit puree as well as my dry hops for 7 days. The nose is completely passion fruit and very tropical which is what I was going for. A few lessons learned though.

The passion fruit added a bit of sour to the beer that is quite tasty although it needs just a touch more sweet to balance out for my taste. I ended up mashing at 152 so next time I think I am going to mash at 154 to get that bit more sweetness I am looking for.

As this was also my first IPA (I know crazy right?) I did drastically under estimate the amount of dry hops needed to really get that nice hoppy flavor. I only ended up using about 1.5 oz of dry hops. Next time I will up it to 3-4 oz for 7 days or so.

All in all a great learning experience and ended up with pretty much what I was aiming for. The passion fruit idea came about when talking with some guys at a local brewery here in Cinci. I'm gonna take in a growler to let em try it out and critique it for me.