Advice for first-time competitors

[JAReeves]

@seatazzz, I am getting inspired to finally enter competitions! My first couple years of home brewing, I joined Strand Brewer's Club in order to get opinions and learned so much about what I was doing wrong! It was also gratifying when I received positive feedback, though, to be honest, that was only for my ciders in the first couple of years.

Now that I have improved a lot of the process for my beers, I kind of want to know outside the circle of: family, friends, co-workers, and neighbors-all of whom probably just like the price point on my booze.

"Free is good."

 

[3 Dawg Night]

My advice: don't put too much stock in the feedback from any one judge or any one competition. If you really want a feel for how good your beer is, you'll have to enter it in several competitions to filter outliers. It's for the same reason that they have multiple judges in gymnastics/diving competitions and throw out the high and low scores.

For example, I just got my scoresheets back from the Beer for ****s IX competition. Regarding my APA, one judge said: "Bitter flavor hides any fruity esters." The second judge said: "Could be better with more hop bitterness."

Same beer, same bottle, same competition, two totally different perceptions of the beer.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

My advice: don't put too much stock in the feedback from any one judge or any one competition. If you really want a feel for how good your beer is, you'll have to enter it in several competitions to filter outliers. It's for the same reason that they have multiple judges in gymnastics/diving competitions and throw out the high and low scores.

For example, I just got my scoresheets back from the Beer for ****s IX competition. Regarding my APA, one judge said: "Bitter flavor hides any fruity esters." The second judge said: "Could be better with more hop bitterness."

Same beer, same bottle, same competition, two totally different perceptions of the beer.

I re-read this, and I don't want any first-time competitors to get the wrong idea. Competition feedback is invaluable if you want to improve your beer. Just take any individual scoresheet with a grain of salt.

One or two scoresheets CAN be somewhat useful. Five to ten scoresheets ARE extremely useful.

 

[MMP126]

I do want to talk about my recent BJCP experience, what I see, and what to expect.

I entered a German Helles in 3 different BJCP comps. Here is the results and time line...

1. Brewed the beer in July.
2. Entered first competition in August. Beer scored a 30 and a 32. Didn't place. Got hit for Diacetyl and Acetaldehyde.
3. Entered same beer at the beginning of October (2nd entry, same beer). Scored a 40 and a 35. Took 2nd place. NO comments on ANY off flavors.
4. Entered same beer this past weekend (3rd time entering, same beer). Scored 22 and 25. Didn't place. Hit for Acetaldehyde only.

Personally, I did not get either off flavor. And a friend and BJCP Master judge didn't get anything either. This tasting was at the first comp. in August.

The above is pretty frustrating when trying to improve upon my beer. I mean, I understand that I probably have a problem, and I need to make better beer and work on my processes. But a swing from 40 down to 22 is pretty big. 40 is minor tweaks, and 22 is flaws and being out of the style parameters. This is an extreme case, and doesn't typically reflect what I see, but I do think its an issue.

There is soooo much at play in these competitions. Familiarity with the style, off flavor knowledge, level of experience, palate fatigue, fatigue in general, boredom, and just a hurry to finish is some cases. Humans are human I guess.

I do not want to make it look like I am slamming anyone, or the BJCP. It is 1000% a useful resource for HONEST feedback on beer, and the people that participate in these competitions (myself included), REALLY try to be fair, honest, consistent, and professional about the beer that is being judged. And the people I have met seem to REALLY care about beer. Really want to help others with their beer.

So, I will say, the BJCP is useful. 100%. But, again, take some of it with a grain of salt. I would take note of what they come back with, but I wouldn't put all my chickens in that one basket, or scoresheet. The people that are judging your beer, DO love beer, and most WANT your beer to be great. But, they are human, and everyone is different.

I plan to become a judge, and work hard AF to be a good one. It is on us really, if you think about it. People that love and make beer are the ones that want to be judges.

 

[VikeMan]

^ My takeaway from this would be that I likely have an issue with Acetaldehyde, showing the value of submitting to multiple competitions. The fact that the judges in comp #2 missed it could be a matter of experience, or palate fatigue, or it could be a matter of varying taste thresholds for Acetaldehyde. The good news is that it's likely right on the edge of the average threshold (~15 mg/liter), and probaly not a huge problem to overcome.

 

[Mutant]

I enter competitions solely for the feedback. I've experienced at least two annoyances with feedback/judging issues: 1) Big Beers Festival's judge for the final round didn't seem to understand BJCP guidelines given the feedback provided; yet, the first two judges got it correct; 2) the 2021 NHC competition didn't provide any judging sheets, which was highly annoying and I figure if that continues I'll just bottle up some Modelo and cut corners also.

 

[VikeMan]

1) Big Beers Festival's judge for the final round didn't seem to understand BJCP guidelines given the feedback provided; yet, the first two judges got it correct;

What was the feedback and what was the style?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

2) the 2021 NHC competition didn't provide any judging sheets, which was highly annoying and I figure if that continues I'll just bottle up some Modelo and cut corners also.

There are a number of big regional competitions that I have participated in (as steward, bottle sorter, competitor) over the years.

As early as 2018, I could see (as a steward) that the size of the competitions was putting pressure on the amount of feedback that judges could provide.

With the 2021 edition of these competitions, they are coming back smaller. In many cases, the scoresheets are online (so you can see the level of feedback you will receive). Most judging continues to be remote, so anticpate sending a 3rd bottle if you want to win BOS.

As for NHC 2022, consider asking FOR THE AMOUNT OF FEEDBACK YOU CAN EXPECT at the regional level and at the final level.

 

[Mutant]

What was the feedback and what was the style?

BJCP 17A British Strong Ale. " As an entry category more than a style, the strength and character of examples can vary widely. Fits in the style space between normal gravity beers (strong bitters, brown ales, English porters) and barleywines. Can include pale malty-hoppy beers, English winter warmers, strong dark milds, smaller Burton ales, and other unique beers in the general gravity range that don’t fit other categories. Traditionally a bottle-conditioned product suitable for cellaring. " The entry was entered as a pale (using their classification 'other'); the first two judges gave appropriate scores noting 'Great Beer'. The final judge decided it couldn't be a pale malty-hoppy beer but had to have dark fruit flavors and other similar comments. This same beer was entered in the Nationals that were cancelled in 2020, and received a Silver in the "Unofficial" Regionals completed by SF with good scores and one judge stating they wanted a case of the beer.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

This is the problem when too many sub categories are all linked together. The overlap of different beers is problematic at best.

 

[camonick]

Got my scores from today's competition and now I'm totally perplexed. My Pilsner got a 3rd place bronze in its category with a 41 in a comp about a month ago. Exact same beer only scored a 32 today and didn't place.
My Schwarzbier scored a 26 at last comp with some negative feedback, but scored a 39 today and received a 1st place gold in its category and advanced to best of show where it got a 2nd place silver overall. Comments included, “had to really nitpick to find anything to critique” and “thoroughly enjoyed this brew and would enjoy another”.
Not complaining, just confused. How do you get a swing from a 26 to a 39 with the exact same beer about a month apart? How do I decipher that to make improvements?

 

[VikeMan]

Not complaining, just confused. How do you get a swing from a 26 to a 39 with the exact same beer about a month apart?

Any/All of:
- some judges are easier/tougher than others
- palate fatigue/judging order
- beer characteristics changed over the course of a month

How do I decipher that to make improvements?

Look for any comments (positive or negative, but especially the latter) in common between the two sets of judges. And since you entered at least two beers in both comps, look for common comments even across the two (or more) styles, if those comments are likely process related.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

How do you get a swing from a 26 to a 39 with the exact same beer about a month apart? How do I decipher that to make improvements?

Clearly the judges that gave you the 39 are have incredible palates and gave you the correct score, and the judges that gave you 26 are total idiots!!

How much chance is there of variation from bottle to bottle? Carbonation differences, oxidation or sediment can have significant impacts on the overall impression of the beer. Are these beers you filled off your keg? At the same time or at different times?

While I have only entered a few competitions, I like the idea of always bottling a few extra bottles to open and evaluate around the time of the competition and/or when you get your feedback sheets.

 

[camonick]

Clearly the judges that gave you the 39 are have incredible palates and gave you the correct score, and the judges that gave you 26 are total idiots!!

How much chance is there of variation from bottle to bottle? Carbonation differences, oxidation or sediment can have significant impacts on the overall impression of the beer. Are these beers you filled off your keg? At the same time or at different times?

While I have only entered a few competitions, I like the idea of always bottling a few extra bottles to open and evaluate around the time of the competition and/or when you get your feedback sheets.

All filled from the same keg at the same time.