Advice for building 1 bbl HERMS rig

[enricocoron]

I am going to upgrade my 10 gallon system to a one bbl one. I have a few ideas of what to do but I would really like some advice from the saavy engineer types.

I am buying two stainless steel 162 quart pots, and one 100 quart aluminum one for HLT. I'd like to do a HERMS mainly for clarity. Can I just use 100 foot 1/2 inch copper coil in my HLT to accomplish this? Do I drill ball valves at top and bottom of both HLT and MT?

How can one accomplish automation with a controller to control heat? Or do you just try to manually fire your HLT to keep the right temp? When finished with mashing, does one just remove the coil and heat up the extra 20 degrees to fly sparge? If so do you mash the first 20-30 minutes while heating the HLT to sach temps and then start the pump? Or do I need a fourth vessel to recirc?

I have a friend that can weld but how do you mount the burners underneath HLT and BK? I'm buyig the Bayou classic burners but I guess without the stands so the burners can be mounted on a frame right under the BK and HLT. How many BTUs do I need, I've heard the Wok burners are really good.

Can I do a whirpool/immersion ciller in a 1 BBL? With a pre chiller loop and 100feet of 1/2 " copper will I be able to cool down in under an hour?

I appreciate any advice.

 

[Tinga]

are those pots going to be big enough to brew one BBl in?

 

[kpr121]

I dont have any experience with automation or brewing at that size, but I am an engineer! And have some opinions:

I am going to upgrade my 10 gallon system to a one bbl one. I have a few ideas of what to do but I would really like some advice from the saavy engineer types.

I am buying two stainless steel 162 quart pots, and one 100 quart aluminum one for HLT. I'd like to do a HERMS mainly for clarity. Can I just use 100 foot 1/2 inch copper coil in my HLT to accomplish this? Do I drill ball valves at top and bottom of both HLT and MT?

100 quart HLT is only 25 gallons (not including volume displaced by 100 feet of coil). One BBL is 31 gallons. Isnt it pretty common to have an HLT of at least your desired batch size? Maybe I’m missing something with fly sparging, I’m a batch sparger brewing in keggles, and know that I fill my HLT damn near full two times during a high gravity 10 gallon brew session.

How can one accomplish automation with a controller to control heat? Or do you just try to manually fire your HLT to keep the right temp? When finished with mashing, does one just remove the coil and heat up the extra 20 degrees to fly sparge? If so do you mash the first 20-30 minutes while heating the HLT to sach temps and then start the pump? Or do I need a fourth vessel to recirc?

I think you will need to wait till the HLT is at or above temp before you start your pump. This is a little different than I’ve seen people generally do but what if you set a temperature controller to control the pump? Probe would be on the outlet of the coil from the HLT, when the temp is low it recircs through the HLT coil. When the set temp is hit, the pump shuts off, and your HLT continues to climb the whole time. You could even install a bypass valve and switch so that you could manually run the pump to make sure you get crystal clear wort, but I would imagine with a non-insulated MLT you will need to be using the HEX often (and definitely during mash-out). I was always weary of controller that set the output of a flame. I know that people have setups that work, but controlling the pump just sounds simpler/easier to integrate.

I have a friend that can weld but how do you mount the burners underneath HLT and BK? I'm buyig the Bayou classic burners but I guess without the stands so the burners can be mounted on a frame right under the BK and HLT. How many BTUs do I need, I've heard the Wok burners are really good.

There are many examples on this site about mounting those types of burners to your brewstand. Not sure on BTUs, but those Wok burners really throw alotta heat out.

Can I do a whirpool/immersion ciller in a 1 BBL? With a pre chiller loop and 100feet of 1/2 " copper will I be able to cool down in under an hour?

I would imagine you would be able to get down to temps in under an hour. For comparison I can get 11 gallon batches down to pitch in about 25 minutes using a 25 foot coil. You are multiplying your surface area by 4, and only multiplying your volume by 3. One thing you will want to do is make sure the wort is agitated somehow. Recirculation/whirlpool is your friend there.

I appreciate any advice.

Hope some of this helps. I just finished my 10 gallon e-HERMS setup (brewed twice on it), and wouldn’t have been able to do it without the help of HBT. Now I am already itching to step up bigger!

 

[Budzu]

I brew weekly on my own 2 bbl electric HERMS so I'll try to relay some experience.

I am going to upgrade my 10 gallon system to a one bbl one. I have a few ideas of what to do but I would really like some advice from the saavy engineer types.

I am buying two stainless steel 162 quart pots, and one 100 quart aluminum one for HLT. I'd like to do a HERMS mainly for clarity. Can I just use 100 foot 1/2 inch copper coil in my HLT to accomplish this? Do I drill ball valves at top and bottom of both HLT and MT?

50 foot should be enough. Its more about the amount of time the liquid spends in the HEX that determines its performance.
I've built and run a keggle based herms, and was able to adequately heat the mash to mash out for instance.
But to address heating performance, on my 2 bbl herms, that size coil will not allow enough liquid to recirculate to be able to heat the mash in a reasonable time. I believe it can still work, but only with either more length to the coil, or better yet, larger diameter tubing. I would recommend trying your best to get 1/2" ID tubing or 5/8". 1/2" ID being 5/8" copper coil. Coil diameters are measured by their outer diameter. Then with 50 feet or so you should do good heat exchange. Probably even just 30.

You can avoid the second ball valve in the MT by just running a hose over the lid into the mash. Not much reason to make it more complicated, unless there's a good reason you need the mashtun shut tight.

How can one accomplish automation with a controller to control heat? Or do you just try to manually fire your HLT to keep the right temp? When finished with mashing, does one just remove the coil and heat up the extra 20 degrees to fly sparge? If so do you mash the first 20-30 minutes while heating the HLT to sach temps and then start the pump? Or do I need a fourth vessel to recirc?

The water in the HLT should be recirculated as well, or stirred continuously so that the temp probe in the HLT will tell a temp controller, usually PID type, how often to fire heat to maintain a steady temp.
Usually with this type of brewing, when your mash rests are done, you continue by heating the HLT to sparge temp, and let the mash temp follow it until mashout. Then the plumbing is changed and the sparge is started. The sparge should be routed through the HEX, which will push out the remaining wort.

Lots of ways to approach this. If you didn't want a mashout, you could stop the mash recirculation, raise the HLT temp (which would be faster than raising it during recirculation), and then start the sparge.

I have a friend that can weld but how do you mount the burners underneath HLT and BK? I'm buyig the Bayou classic burners but I guess without the stands so the burners can be mounted on a frame right under the BK and HLT. How many BTUs do I need, I've heard the Wok burners are really good.

Can I do a whirpool/immersion ciller in a 1 BBL? With a pre chiller loop and 100feet of 1/2 " copper will I be able to cool down in under an hour?

I appreciate any advice.

Can't say much about burners, but I've seen many great examples around this site. You will find help or inspiration here.

About the immersion chiller, yes! Just don't be a wimp with that water. gonna use a metric S-load so grin through it. I would expect it to use around 45 gallons of water and ice, which will be the right amount for your next brew, so run it to storage if possible.

Good luck!

 

[enricocoron]

are those pots going to be big enough to brew one BBl in?

I think so....thats 40 gallons, 1 bbl is 31....

For the HLT, it doesn't need to be as big as your kettle....but perhaps a 160 quart aluminum allows more wiggle room.

How does the controller 'fire' the kettle? Wouldn't that mean leaving the propane on and flowing when the flame is off? Or do you shut the valve on your propane tank?

 

[Tinga]

I think so....thats 40 gallons, 1 bbl is 31....

For the HLT, it doesn't need to be as big as your kettle....but perhaps a 160 quart aluminum allows more wiggle room.

How does the controller 'fire' the kettle? Wouldn't that mean leaving the propane on and flowing when the flame is off? Or do you shut the valve on your propane tank?

whats your pre boil volume and does that leave enough room for the movement caused by the boil? i mean I've tried to make 5 gallon batches in a 7.5 gallon pot and let me tell you it was not as easy as I thought. It might be determined by pot geometry but I'm not sure.

 

[enricocoron]

I can make an 12 gallon post boil batch in a 15 gallon pot....15% boil off...I use 14 gallons pre boil for 60 minute boils and almost to the brim for 90 minute boils. You gotta almost kill the heat and blow/stir at the hot break but that's the fun part.