Adjunct Fermentability

[BeerMaverick]

Hi all, I'm looking for a source/data that explains the degree of fermentability of different adjuncts. The most obvious case of a non-fermentable adjunct is Lactose, but I'm reading some sources online indicating that Flaked Barley is not fermentable (including on the simpsons malt website: Flaked Barley vs Flaked Wheat vs Flaked Oats - Simpsons Malt). If you go to the most popular brewing calculators such as Beersmith, Brewcipher, etc. and enter in Flaked Barley as your only brewing ingredient, an alcohol level will populate indicating that it is indeed fermentable (at least to some degree). If you open up the Flaked Barley description in BeerSmith, the "not fermentable" box is not checked, indicating that it is indeed fermentable. I guess this question is moreso about Flaked Barley, but if anyone has a source on the fermentability of numerous adjuncts that would be even more helpful. Thank you for your help!

P.S. This is not a question of if sugars are added to wort by introducing Flaked Barley (they are of course), but whether or not those sugars are fermentable.

 

[bracconiere]

beersmith would assume you're mixing it with malt, in a mash to convert it....

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Hmm... unsure about the HBT in the following link. Looks suspicious to me.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Fermentable_adjuncts

 

[Dland]

Thanks for the warning, I'll avoid all links tonight unless sausage.

Brac's probably right, that's the way it works with flaked corn & rice. If there is an malted version of the adjunct you want to use, might be a good choice if concerned about conversion. I use malted rye instead of flaked, for instance.

 

[bracconiere]

Hmm... unsure about the HBT in the following link. Looks suspicious to me.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Fermentable_adjuncts

just looked at corn grits, compared to flaked corn. wonder if grits are sweet corn?

 

[day_trippr]

The wiki is closer to reality (save for the grits - not sure what happened there).
But wrt the question, there is a lot of stupidly wrong info on the intertoobs. Here's a prime on-topic example that claims there's nothing fermentable in flaked barley...

https://www.morebeer.com/products/f...rotein for,to accommodate a fermentable grain.

 

[bracconiere]

The wiki is closer to reality (save for the grits - not sure what happened there).
But wrt the question, there is a lot of stupidly wrong info on the intertoobs. Here's a prime on-topic example that claims there's nothing fermentable in flaked barley...

https://www.morebeer.com/products/f...rotein for,to accommodate a fermentable grain.

huh, "add to grist and mash like any base malt?" well then the starch will be converted....and sourdough and bread wouldn't be a thing if there wasn't 'anything' fermentable in it?

 

[day_trippr]

As I said, lots of stupidity out there, and no editors to keep that cruft off the air

 

[Vale71]

P.S. This is not a question of if sugars are added to wort by introducing Flaked Barley (they are of course), but whether or not those sugars are fermentable.

Yes, they most definitely are. If mashed with enough base malt the starch will be fully converted resulting in the same mix of sugars as if the barley were malted. Proteins are a completely different issue as proteolitic activity in the mash if very limited and that's the main reason for using unmalted barley (or wheat or oats).

 

[VikeMan]

If you go to the most popular brewing calculators such as Beersmith, Brewcipher, etc. and enter in Flaked Barley as your only brewing ingredient, an alcohol level will populate indicating that it is indeed fermentable (at least to some degree).

As others have said, in the presence of a diastatic base malt (or enzymes added any other way), the starches in flaked barley are converted to sugars/dextrins, some of which are fermentable, just like starches from base malts are.

Note that if you input only flaked barley (without any base malts) in BrewCipher, it will show a Diastatic Power of "0" for the grist and give a warning, highlighted in red.

 

[BeerMaverick]

Thanks all - as I noted, this isn't a question of any pre-fermentation processes/mechanics (I understand Flaked Barley has a DP of 0 and needs a base malt to be converted and that Flaked Barley does have sugar to lend to increase gravity once converted). My question was if those sugars are fermentable or not - I always thought they were to some degree due to the software out there (in Brewcipher, Flaked Barley has an attenuation factor of 0.83, suggesting it is indeed fermentable). My confusion was due to a bunch of sources out there (such as the simpsons link I posted above, the morebeer link someone else posted above, etc.) saying that this adjunct is not fermentable.

 

[VikeMan]

My question was if those sugars are fermentable or not - I always thought they were to some degree due to the software out there (in Brewcipher, Flaked Barley has an attenuation factor of 0.83, suggesting it is indeed fermentable).

Roughly, you can expect the mix of sugars/dextrins to be about as fermentable as the mix from an equivalent base malt (pilsner malt, in this case).

My confusion was due to a bunch of sources out there (such as the simpsons link I posted above, the morebeer link someone else posted above, etc.) saying that this adjunct is not fermentable.

MoreBeer's statement is just wrong. With Simpsons, I guess you could give them the benefit of the doubt if you want to be kind. They say "Used up to 10% of the total grist, Flaked Barley is used to add unfermentable saccharides in the brewing process." Well, it does add some unfermentable saccharides. About the same as malt does.

ETA: I just noticed the word "was" in your reply, indicating past tense. Sorry if this post piled on!

 

[BeerMaverick]

Roughly, you can expect the mix of sugars/dextrins to be about as fermentable as the mix from an equivalent base malt (pilsner malt, in this case).



MoreBeer's statement is just wrong. With Simpsons, I guess you could give them the benefit of the doubt if you want to be kind. They say "Used up to 10% of the total grist, Flaked Barley is used to add unfermentable saccharides in the brewing process." Well, it does add some unfermentable saccharides. About the same as malt does.

ETA: I just noticed the word "was" in your reply, indicating past tense. Sorry if this post piled on!

This answers it for me - thank you sir! It's now clear that it's not all about burritos and strippers.

 

[VikeMan]

It's now clear that it's not all about burritos and strippers.

Sadly.