adding malic acid

[gx37987]

Hi everyone, I've been brewing cider now for about 2 years, I think I've got my recipe down. Now I want to tinker with it trying different things like adding malic acid to bring out the apple flavor has any one done this? what should I watch out for? I do have a PH meter I got last year as a gift, but I still haven't used it yet. What PH levels should I target and how do I raise or lower the PH level (which is harder).

Thanks for the input

 

[ejcrist]

I'm new at cider making so I'll be interested to see the responses. I was thinking the same thing, that adding malic acid to lower pH and add more "bite" would be better than adding tartaric like you do with wine/grapes. As far as pH goes, I'm not sure what the optimum range is for cider, but since it's a sort of a kind of wine I'd imagine about 3.2 - 3.8 to keep sulphite additions in the range where you can't taste them and to keep bacteria at bay.

 

[ejcrist]

Hi everyone, I've been brewing cider now for about 2 years, I think I've got my recipe down. Now I want to tinker with it trying different things like adding malic acid to bring out the apple flavor has any one done this? what should I watch out for? I do have a PH meter I got last year as a gift, but I still haven't used it yet. What PH levels should I target and how do I raise or lower the PH level (which is harder).

Thanks for the input

Gosh, I guess no one's interested in malic acid the way we are. For what it's worth, I've been trying to keep my pH between 3.2 and 3.8, same as white wine. If for no other reason it'll keep the sulphite needed at a reasonable level so you don't taste it in your finished cider. Above 3.8 and you'll have to add a relatively high amount that you might start to taste. Let me know if you're not familiar with the relation between the two and I'll elaborate. I haven't had to add anything to my first batch - the pH was in the range. I didn't check the acid level but I will at the first racking and shoot for 0.60-0.80. If I'm below 0.60 I plan to add malic acid instead of tartaric like I do with wine. If I end up having to add it I'll shoot you a pm to let you know how it turned out.

 

[dmtaylor]

I won't be much help to you. I add no malic acid, no other acid, no sulfite, no sorbate, no pectinase, no nutrients. I heat pasteurize my juice at about 160 F for about 15 minutes, cool to the 50s, pitch Cote des Blancs or US-05, and ferment there for several months, racking about once per week for the first month then adding gelatin, to limit yeast activity, to slow fermentation, and to maintain a bit of sweetness. My ciders end up about 1.010, and turn out delicious, but still tend to come out on the tart side, so I can't imagine adding even more malic acid. But it's nothing malolactic fermentation couldn't fix later I suppose.

 

[Yooper]

I've never tasted a cider that needed any malic acid added- usually, there is too much. If you're using a bland apple juice, then maybe it could be ok but generally people try to reduce malic acid in cider rather than adding more. That's probably why you don't have a lot of responses.

 

[gregbathurst]

I've added tartaric acid for wine to correct pH, TA etc, but in the end I never thought the wine tasted any better. Now I just work with whatever the fruit gives, I don't think things like malic acid, sugar, grape tannin etc will ever improve a cider. The best way is to blend a few different varieties together to get a balanced cider

 

[ejcrist]

Thanks for the responses. I figured apple's/apple juice's would be highest in malic but that's just a guestimate on my part, so it seemed to make sense that it would be the acid to add if any. I didn't know a lot of you guy's final cider came out tart but that being the case, now I'm re-thinking adding malic even if you tested and it's not in the same range as wine (0.60-0.80). This is where actual experience comes in which I don't have any when it comes to cider. Two of the books I have (The Hard Cider Book and The New Cider Maker's Handbook) say to wait till the end if you're going to adjust to taste and it seems like good advice.

 

[ejcrist]

Gx and anyone else interested, I just tested the Musselman's cider from Wally Mart and found the following:

pH - 3.6
TA - 0.36
SG - 1.050

So the pH looks good being less than 3.8, so when I sulphite later I won't have to add a higher amount that I might taste. Also to note, the fermentation process will lower the pH to between about 3.4-3.5 so I'm happy with 3.6. The TA on the other hand is low by wine standards at 0.36. White wine should be between about 0.6-0.7, and at first I was thinking to add acids like I was saying ealier. But then I thought about it and I'm speculating the dominant acid in apple cider/juice is probably malic, and if that's the case it's likely a lower acid range is what you want with cider since malic has a lot more bite than tartaric in my experience. Since I don't know for sure though, and based on some of the comments, I'm going to wait until the first racking and give her a taste. If I think it needs more bite or pucker factor I'll test the malic acid ppm with an Accuvin test kit I have, and if the numbers aren't really high I'll add a little malic and re-taste/re-test until it tastes decent. If however the malic amount is already high I'll add a little tartaric or citric and go from there. But if I were a bettin' man I'd lay my money on a lower acid range being what you want in ciders based on what the previous posters said. I'll keep everyone posted.