Acidulated Confusion

[LeakyBucket]

So, I'm a bit disappointed. I brewed my first batch in two years Saturday before last. I was going for a Wit although I used Wheat Malt instead of flaked Wheat. I was also going for a bit of a sour flavor. Due to the fact that my water is about 7.8ph and wanting the sour flavor I decided to try Acidulated Malt.

I tasted the beer last Saturday after taking a gravity reading. It tastes great however I didn't really detect any sourness. Has anyone used Acidulated Malt for sour flavor before? How strong is it? Does it tend to come on stronger as the beer ages?

Here is my recipe:


Half-Wit

6.0 lbs. White Wheat Malt
3.0 lbs. Pils (2 Row)
1.0 lb. Acidulated Malt
.5 lbs. Rice Hulls

.75 oz Saaz (Czech), 60 minutes
.75 oz Brewer's Gold, 10 minutes
.25 oz Saaz (Czech), 5 minutes

.75 oz Coriander Seed, 5 minutes
.75 oz Bitter Orange Peel, 5 minutes
.25 oz Sweet Orange Peel, 5 minutes
10 Black Pepper Corns, 5 minutes

60 minute mash ~150F
60 minute boil

After one week it was pretty good, very distinct orange flavor. As I said above I'm not getting much if any sour tang. I also didn't detect much "black currant" from the Brewer's Gold either. Although 10 minutes may have been a bit long to get much of that flavor.

 

[Nateo]

Acidulated malt is like 3%, IIRC. It's more for adjusting mash pH than flavoring.

If you want it sour, you should add 88% lactic acid directly to the beer. 20ml should give it a bit of tang, more if you want it truly sour.

 

[coryforsenate]

You'll have to use a lot of it to get a sour twang. Like Nateo said, it's more for pH adjusting than flavoring.

As far as hop flavors, .75oz in my experience won't really give much discernible individual flavor notes unless it's a particularly potent one, like chinook hops with grapefruit flavor. If you really want some of a hop's flavor notes to stick out more, I'd use that one hop as all or the large majority of your hop bill.

 

[LeakyBucket]

Thanks, from reading the FAQ on Weyermann's site I figured 10% would give some flavor, they recommend 8% for a Weisse like sourness.

I haven't really had Brewer's Gold before and wasn't sure how strong the Black Currant flavor was. I'll keep the suggested amounts in mind for next time.

 

[DeafSmith]

Acidulated malt is like 3%, IIRC. It's more for adjusting mash pH than flavoring.

If you want it sour, you should add 88% lactic acid directly to the beer. 20ml should give it a bit of tang, more if you want it truly sour.

Would it work to add a drop or two of lactic acid to a beer just before you drink it?

 

[Nateo]

Would it work to add a drop or two of lactic acid to a beer just before you drink it?

It would make it sour, but letting it age a few weeks will allow the flavors to combine better.

Leaky: If you haven't bottled it yet, you can add the acid now, let it wait a few weeks, then bottle it.

 

[LeakyBucket]

I'm planning on opening it up again today. Depending on where it's at I might try to find some lactic acid.

Although I'll have to give it a taste first. Thinking back to last time. I remember a very "complete" orange taste. I'm wondering if the sour is there and just combining with the orange flavors to trick my mind into thinking I'm having an actual orange.

 

[LeakyBucket]

Okay, so the Acidulated Malt has definitely given the beer a sour flavor

I have a feeling that last time I tasted the Orange character was strong enough that my brain combined the Orange and the Sour and decided I was eating an actual orange. It was a very complete orange flavor.

The orange flavor has mellowed now and it tastes a bit like a sour orange, but the two flavors are definitely distinct at this point.

This has given me some new ideas. I'm also much happier with the Acidulated Malt

 

[merkinman]

Would you say the sourness is dominant at 10%? I am interested in using some acidulated in my next wit, but I only want a hint of tartness -- nothing close to a lambic, etc.

 

[mabrungard]

There are two components to sourness, the type of anion and the pH.

To address a misconception by the OP, the pH of the starting water is not the primary concern. Alkalinity is the primary concern and they did not provide that information. The 7.8 pH means little. It could take a drop of acid to drop that 7.8 to 5.0 if the alkalinity is very low, while it could take teaspoons full to create the same drop if the alkalinity is high. So, alkalinity of the starting water will affect the ending pH if a limited amount of acid or acid malt is added.

The anion associated with the acid has a flavor impact. For instance, the orthophosphate ion associated with phosphoric acid is relatively taste-free in beer while the lactate ion has a pleasant and tart sourness. The acetate anion associated with acetic acid has the distinctive vinegar flavor. The malate anion associated with malic acid is intensely sour and its the acid used in those sour candies.

Again, the amount of flavor impact will be dependent upon the amount of acid or acid malt added and the water alkalinity will help define how much impact that addition has.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

There are two components to sourness, the type of anion and the pH.

To address a misconception by the OP, the pH of the starting water is not the primary concern. Alkalinity is the primary concern and they did not provide that information. The 7.8 pH means little. It could take a drop of acid to drop that 7.8 to 5.0 if the alkalinity is very low, while it could take teaspoons full to create the same drop if the alkalinity is high. So, alkalinity of the starting water will affect the ending pH if a limited amount of acid or acid malt is added.

The anion associated with the acid has a flavor impact. For instance, the orthophosphate ion associated with phosphoric acid is relatively taste-free in beer while the lactate ion has a pleasant and tart sourness. The acetate anion associated with acetic acid has the distinctive vinegar flavor. The malate anion associated with malic acid is intensely sour and its the acid used in those sour candies.

Again, the amount of flavor impact will be dependent upon the amount of acid or acid malt added and the water alkalinity will help define how much impact that addition has.

yeah... what he said...

 

[LeakyBucket]

Would you say the sourness is dominant at 10%? I am interested in using some acidulated in my next wit, but I only want a hint of tartness -- nothing close to a lambic, etc.

I wouldn't say dominant. It is definitely discernible at the end. I think it's about perfect for my palate. I actually tasted it at various stages and it was stronger at some points and more mellowed at others. It really seems to depend on the strength of the orange flavor, and the temperature of the beer.

It definitely isn't lambic sour but it leaves a nice sour taste in your mouth. I will definitely use it again in the future.

As for my water, I'm no chemist and didn't know about the buffering capabilities of water. I've attempted to request data from my Water Utility but have not received a reply yet. I know we have rather hard water with a high pH. I'm not sure about the bicarbonate levels but I know calcium is high, you can see it on faucets and whatnot.