Acetobacter in barrel - help!

[kaz4121]

Well, i unfortunately pitched and fermented my "bottle dregs" sour with acetobacter contaminated brett. Trust me, it has been verified to be acetobacter contaminated.

The beer is not completely lost at this point but I would like to hault the acebacter activity and blend with a clean beer to make it more palatable. I have a couple questions:

1. Will moving to glass with limited headspace minimize further vinegar-ing?
2. Or, can I halt acetobacter activity by briefly boiling (pasteurizing) the contents of the barrel?
3. How will boiling affect the flavor nuances (both good and bad)?
4. How do I cleanse my barrel? Will camden or sulfites work? (I am not throwing it out!)
5. Other ideas?

That's it for now. Thanks

 

[PLOVE]

I would think you should be able to kill off any acetobacter with camden. Boiling seems like overkill.

Barrel's probably a goner. You could definitely try camden, or strong meta with citric acid mix and hope you kill any spores/colonies in the wood. The problem is the wood is porous and things really like to hide in wood. Whatever you do - minimize O2 by minimizing headspace if you use the barrel again. . .

Tough one. . . Hopefully someone will have better suggestions. I have a nice 16 gal oak barrel I've been using and I'm always worried I'll be composing a similar "help" e-mail down the road. . .

Good luck!
P

 

[ChugachBrewing]

Acetobactor is present in many bottle dregs and is one of the few that is fueled by oxygen. While appropriate in a Flanders brew, your sounds like its headed more towards a bowl of salad.

Bad news is, there isn't a way to boil or scrub it out. If you want it to halt, you need to get rid of the oxygen that is present (your barrel). Not throw it out, but get the beer out of there, into stainless, bottles, etc. How old is the beer?

I generally hot water rinse between batches - there are many other methods involving various chemicals, etc. but if you really don't want any acetobactor, then you might just want to get another barrel. I've had good luck with local wineries - their barrels don't last forever.

As for the beer once its halted, either drink it or you could blend it with another (or distill it... if you know someone with a setup.)

 

[kaz4121]

@Chugach - I don't mind some acetobacter character, but this is overwhelmingly becoming straight vinegar. The beer is about 4 months old, and has become aggressively sour and vinegary in the past 30 days. I plan on getting it out of the barrel this weekend and into glass to give me time to get a clean belgian brewed and fermented to blend with.

My major concern what how to move forward with the barrel. I realize that acetobacter will probably always be an issue with barrels at some point, but my plan was to use this barrel to inoculate some of my "spontaneous" wild ales for a couple of months before moving to glass.

Would campden slow/reduce the aceto population enough to make it manageable?

 

[Calder]

Obviously, I have no idea how bad your beer tastes, but us it really worth taking some good beer and mixing it to get ........... maybe a drinkable beer. You might want to cobsider just dumping it and getting on with making decent beer.

 

[dantheman13]

I have no experience with acetobacter (that I know of)... once in a bottle or keg, how dangerous is it that it will continue to turn a blended beer to vinegar? Would that require additional O2, and thus not be a concern?

 

[ChugachBrewing]

Cold temps and lack of 02 will slow it significantly.

How big is the barrel?

Sent from my PG86100 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[sweetcell]

Would campden slow/reduce the aceto population enough to make it manageable?

are you talking about in the beer, or in the barrels?

in the beer, it's too late: the aceto has already produced acetic acid. getting rid of the bugs won't get rid of their already created by-products. campden will kill the aceto in the beer, but it will also kill off your other bugs (lacto and pedio).

i have no experience with using campden in the barrel, but i doubt that would work. i can't see how the campden (dissolved in water) could get deep enough in the wood.

what about filling the barrel with boiling water? won't that heat the wood to the point of killing the aceto? you will have the same problem as with campden in the beer: what kills aceto will also kill beneficial bugs.

 

[kaz4121]

Obviously, I have no idea how bad your beer tastes, but us it really worth taking some good beer and mixing it to get ........... maybe a drinkable beer. You might want to cobsider just dumping it and getting on with making decent beer.

It's not "bad" at this point, just a touch too much vinegar at this point. I am more concerned about how I can halt further vinegar production and then blend it to my liking. Dumping would be overkill at this point.

 

[kaz4121]

Cold temps and lack of 02 will slow it significantly.

How big is the barrel?

Sent from my PG86100 using Home Brew mobile app

It's a small 5 gallon one

 

[kaz4121]

are you talking about in the beer, or in the barrels?

in the beer, it's too late: the aceto has already produced acetic acid. getting rid of the bugs won't get rid of their already created by-products. campden will kill the aceto in the beer, but it will also kill off your other bugs (lacto and pedio).

i have no experience with using campden in the barrel, but i doubt that would work. i can't see how the campden (dissolved in water) could get deep enough in the wood.

what about filling the barrel with boiling water? won't that heat the wood to the point of killing the aceto? you will have the same problem as with campden in the beer: what kills aceto will also kill beneficial bugs.

I'm talking about in the barrel - I know the effects of the aceto can't be reversed in the beer.

I don't mind killing off everything in the barrel and starting with a fresh pitch of my ECY culture. I was considering several passes of boiling water but wasn't sure if campden would help too.

 

[ChugachBrewing]

If it's a 5 gallon barrel, why not toss it in your oven? I'm not saying recharr the barrel, but bake the aceto out of it.

 

[kaz4121]

If it's a 5 gallon barrel, why not toss it in your oven? I'm not saying recharr the barrel, but bake the aceto out of it.

I never thought of that.

What do you think, 250F for an hour or so?

 

[ChugachBrewing]

Try putting an oven.probe in the bung. see what the temp does. I'm guessing it will take longer.

Just an idea. Anyone else feel free to chime in...

Sent from my PG86100 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[sweetcell]

If it's a 5 gallon barrel, why not toss it in your oven? I'm not saying recharr the barrel, but bake the aceto out of it.

i think that's a great idea, however i would think that you would want to use wet heat - a steam bath. i would be concerned that dry heat, i.e. what your kitchen over pumps out, might crack the wood.

wood is a good insulator, so while it might be 250*F on the outside of the barrel it would take a while for the heat to transfer inside (bung hole isn't very big... yes, that sounded dirty). dry heat + heat differential = potential for uneven expansion and cracking.

 

[ChugachBrewing]

True. Probably heat slowly. Cycle oven on and off over several hours. You could also start by pouring in boiling water, then put a shallow pan in the bottom of the oven and set for 220. The temps should be somewhat equal...? I'd use a double probe to make sure they are.

I use this probe for my smoker, could do something like this:
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/handheld/TW8060.html

 

[FredTheNuke]

What temperature range slows aceto down? Stops it even in the presence of oxygen?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[FredTheNuke]

Wild Brews provided one answer. 70F to 110F for acetobacter. So keeping my Sour Fermentation chamber at 67-69 should be good. Maybe drop it a few more degrees? The lacto peters out at 60F. I have 105 gallons of treasure working along... Clones of Tart of Darkness, Consecration, ECY Bug County 2013 with 40% wheat and a 40% wheat Roeselare. Some in HDPE some in glass.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[sweetcell]

Wild Brews provided one answer. 70F to 110F for acetobacter. So keeping my Sour Fermentation chamber at 67-69 should be good.

i could be wrong here, but i believe that 70-110 is the ideal range for aceto. i don't think it drops dead at 69... just starts being slower.

 

[FredTheNuke]

I would agree. What I wonder is to what extent it slows down per degree below 70. Is it exponential or more of a level drop as you reduce the temp below 70.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew