A warning for all March pump owners

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I like the alphabetical bit better unless one has metric bits or small adjustable reamers, I have reamers in stock.
has March tried adding a small narrow spiral grove to pull in liquid to better lube the inpeller? Just asking.

lol...it has been discussed. Only problem is the cost involved in having a shaft that small with grooves cut into it. We have also talked about doing a "rifle bore" on the impeller as well....but then it gets into some complicated molding issues. Starting on our series 3 pumps we offer what we call a "3-flat shaft" think of a triangle with rounded corners. Its helps get more fluid between the impeller and shaft....but again added costs that not everyone wants or needs.

-Walter

 

[ClaudiusB]

Starting on our series 3 pumps we offer what we call a "3-flat shaft" think of a triangle with rounded corners. Its helps get more fluid between the impeller and shaft....but again added costs that not everyone wants or needs.

-Walter

Like this?

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Like this?

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

yep

 

[BrewBeemer]

Oh snap, a good question. I doubt it has merit with a relatively small market, homebrewers.

Does March realize, that they could design a pump specifically for homebrewers, and literally sell HUNDREDS of them?

I bet if March came up with a 1/15 to 1/12 hp mag pump with a larger impeller that just clears the pump housing with an improvement in catching and maintaining prime they would be selling thousands not "HUNDREDS of them". There are more brewers than you think..

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I bet if March came up with a 1/15 to 1/12 hp mag pump with a larger impeller that just clears the pump housing with an improvement in catching and maintaining prime they would be selling thousands not "HUNDREDS of them". There are more brewers than you think..

The problem would be the "just clears" part. The tighter you make the tolerances inside our pump the more "involved" you get with it. Right now there is a certain amount of "slop" we have to allow for differentials in material size, be it from metal parts being outside the max, or plastic parts that have expanded or shrunk too much during the molding process. If we wanted to make an impeller to fit inside the pump housing as tight as possible, then we would need to mold them bigger them machine to fit. But the more steps you involve in the production of the part the cost then goes up as well. And most people are looking for the least expensive part now a days.

In our case we are held by the short hairs on the materials we buy from the outside. The price of the motors or the price of the plastic we use is the best example. The last two years they have been increasing the price almost 10% each year. Of course we shop around but we always make it a priority to try and find American product before going elsewhere. If they raise the cost on us we have to raise the cost of the pumps.... most of our OEM's said right before the beginning of last year that they can not accept ANY price increase....so we had to eat the price increase to keep them.

-Walter

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I bet if March came up with a 1/15 to 1/12 hp mag pump with a larger impeller that just clears the pump housing with an improvement in catching and maintaining prime they would be selling thousands not "HUNDREDS of them". There are more brewers than you think..

And we actually do sell thousands of these! Believe it or not you can find these in some strange places... On some school buses (but they use a 12v dc motor) you can find them on solar hot water systems (also 12v and 24v dc) in Home radiant flooring systems. Theres people useing them to drain fry cookers of the waste oil...we have them in testing phases of fuel cell systems...theres a farmer that uses a few to pump water to troughs for his chicken coops to give the chicklen fresh water. they are in alot of homes for hot water recirc.

Our little 893 pump is on the space shuttles! We even had NASCAR experiment with our pumps for transmissions.

-Walter

 

[BrewBeemer]

The problem would be the "just clears" part. The tighter you make the tolerances inside our pump the more "involved" you get with it. Right now there is a certain amount of "slop" we have to allow for differentials in material size, be it from metal parts being outside the max, or plastic parts that have expanded or shrunk too much during the molding process. If we wanted to make an impeller to fit inside the pump housing as tight as possible, then we would need to mold them bigger them machine to fit. But the more steps you involve in the production of the part the cost then goes up as well. And most people are looking for the least expensive part now a days.
-Walter

Walter,
with the March HF impeller installed the ends of the impeller blades clear the pump body by 0.130" vs 0.374" measured on a standard impeller before the improved HF impeller came available, why not cast impellers at 0.200" larger diameter?
This would still allow for 0.030" clearance from the pump body, no extra steps machining just casted like the HF impellers as they are not machined to fit either. With 0.030" clearance this is far more than enough clearance allowing for wobble including impeller hub bearing wear without rubbing into the pump body, 0.030" will also allow grain particles to pass without jamming the impeller. Just step it up again like March did with the HF impeller. I did see two spruce tabs from the injection process, this would require a longer impeller blade mold with a larger injection material increase no added machining process and time same process as the HF injection impeller castings.
I'm not being testy with you Walter, just looking for another step up improvement again. JMO's.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Walter,
with the March HF impeller installed the ends of the impeller blades clear the pump body by 0.130" vs 0.374" measured on a standard impeller before the improved HF impeller came available, why not cast impellers at 0.200" larger diameter?
This would still allow for 0.030" clearance from the pump body, no extra steps machining just casted like the HF impellers as they are not machined to fit either. With 0.030" clearance this is far more than enough clearance allowing for wobble including impeller hub bearing wear without rubbing into the pump body, 0.030" will also allow grain particles to pass without jamming the impeller. Just step it up again like March did with the HF impeller. I did see two spruce tabs from the injection process, this would require a longer impeller blade mold with a larger injection material increase no added machining process and time same process as the HF injection impeller castings.
I'm not being testy with you Walter, just looking for another step up improvement again. JMO's.

It wouldnt be that hard to modify the mold for a larger blade. But....with the extra "slop" in the line you have some "give" when it does wear open larger or if you happen to damage the impeller from running dry. In 90% of the cases that i get with people having issues i let them know they dont need to order a new impeller but just pass a drill bit through it and open it up. If we had it super tight then when the impeller does start to wear on the pumps that have some age behind them, i will start getting phone calls that their pumps are now noisy after being quiet for 5-10 years!
Having a super tight tollerance would be easier on a shaft drive pump as the impeller doesnt move in any other direction other then round.

Dont worry about being testy or suggesting new ideas. I have been with the company now for 10+ years and at some point or another have broght up a majority of these ideas to the owner. Unfortunatly he is of the mindset that if it aint broke dont mess with it! The next generation that will take over the company is willing to do changes as they see to be competitve we need some variety....but the current owner is 80+yrs old and just along for the ride right now...

-Walter

 

[BrewBeemer]

The owner of FrameSquare; http://www.skylinepictures.com/New_Frame_Moulding_Cutting_Joining_Equipment_page_2.htm
back east is 87 or 88 years old, set in his ways also but still on his game and knows every piece of his equipment. He told me the serial number of my 1000 saw plus the company I got it from.
This a lot better than dealing with a middleman sales person who hasn't a clue about the products they sell.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

BrewBeemer, your idea about the 1/12 or 1/10hp stainless head pump you PM'd me about just incase anyone wanted to actually have one made would be something like the following:

Motor with drive magnet and pump bracket of the BC-4C-MD
Front and rear stainless pump housings from the TE-5S-MD
and Polysulfill impeller of the AC-5B with the impeller blades trimed down in height to .250

This pump setup would give you a max output of 14gpm and max head height of 21.5' or max pressure output of 9.3psi.

-Walter

 

[illin8]

How much $$ Walter?

 

[wildwest450]

The next generation that will take over the company is willing to do changes as they see to be competitve we need some variety....but the current owner is 80+yrs old and just along for the ride right now...

-Walter

Al Davis owns March Manufacturing?


_

 

[Randar]

but the current owner is 80+yrs old and just along for the ride right now...

Is he the one who decided on the decor for the front area of your offices? All that wood paneling plus a fountain splashing water around? LOL!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Is he the one who decided on the decor for the front area of your offices? All that wood paneling plus a fountain splashing water around? LOL!

Ive been trying to get rid of that fountain for 8yrs now!
And the wood paneling is from the current owners Dad! that passed away some 20yrs ago

-Walter

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

How much $$ Walter?

That pump would have a list price of $920

-Walter

 

[Nightbiker]

I'm glad I found the thread, always nice to know of a potential problem and fix (before the problem materializes or the fix is needed).
My 809s have been humming along for over a year (and I'm not sure how many hours that adds up to. My 'primary' recirculates the mash for about an hour, then runs the sparge water through that stage, and the ice-cold water through a Therminator for the cooling stage. The secondary only transfers the wort to the boil kettle, then from the boil kettle through the therminator (so it doesn't really get a lot of use compared to the other one) -but I do clean 'em by circulating clean water through (the second one, since by then, the first one has had quite a few gallons of clean water run through it), and so far no issues. I love them, they're absolute workhorses. Though I probably over-0il (each pump gets two drops through both oil holes before I begin the brewday).

 

[BrewBeemer]

That pump would have a list price of $920

-Walter

Ouch Walter!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Ouch Walter!

I know....but keep in mind thats a "list price" and most distributors sell for cheaper then list. And its still cheaper then going to our TE-5S-MD pump wich is all stainless and has a list price of $1406 but thats more on the industrial side as well.


-Walter