A new kind of kettle whirlpool

[Bobby_M]

Robust construction and flawless weldless design. Boom.

 

[jtratcliff]

Nice! Me likey.

 

[WI_Wino]

There is probably an obvious answer but why have the whirlpool outlet so low? I manually "whirlpool" with my spoon while chilling.

 

[kevink]

I see a weld. Is the male thread tapered or straight?

 

[rodduley]

Bobby, would these be different lengths to fit a variety of kettles? Also (probably a dumb question) is there any issues with boiling wort ejected out of the kettle during the boil?

 

[Bobby_M]

The outlet is positioned to keep it under the surface of the lowest batch size. If you have a 15 gallon pot and do both 5 and 10 gallon batches, it's best to have the outlet at the 4 gallon mark. Keep in mind that I'm not making a case for whirlpooling over not whirlpooling or using a pump and this device over just using a spoon. If you have a pump and want to whirlpool, you're not going to find a better hardware solution.

It is available in 10, 12, and 14" drop lengths. I've never seen wort spitting out of the port but in full disclosure, all our testing has had the wort level at least 3" below the install port height. The way I would prevent it during the boil is to either use a vinyl camlock cover or the Cam DC cap (I suppose even a small rubber stopper would do).

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1Sk6VFnbg[/ame]

 

[Bobby_M]

I see a weld. Is the male thread tapered or straight?

You see a weld? I'm not following you.

The threads are straight but they are not to 1/2" NPS standards. They are cut so that female NPT fittings get deep engagement and there is absolutely no problem with sealing.

 

[AnOldUR]

Also (probably a dumb question) is there any issues with boiling wort ejected out of the kettle during the boil?

Even if it's mounted high, you'd probably want a ball valve outside the pot. I use Bobby's Mini-Ball Valve on my whirlpool arm.


BTW, really like this idea. Seems perfect for someone who wants to whirlpool after a BIAB mash.



edit: damn, i type slow

 

[Vesteroid]

I have one of these from the other brewing supplier, and if you don't watch you can siphon from it. I simply added a valve and was fine...ymmv

 

[Vesteroid]

Even if it's mounted high, you'd probably want a ball valve outside the pot. I use Bobby's Mini-Ball Valve on my whirlpool arm.


BTW, really like this idea. Seems perfect for someone who wants to whirlpool after a BIAB mash.

Those valves are reduced flow and I would think on the whirlpool you want all the flow the pump can give you. I would choose another valve for this operation.

 

[AnOldUR]

Those valves are reduced flow and I would think on the whirlpool you want all the flow the pump can give you. I would choose another valve for this operation.

Pretty sure that the reduced flow on the 1/2" mini ball valve is still greater than the inside diameter of the whirlpool arm, so it should have no impact with this application. Bobby?

 

[Bobby_M]

The ID of the drop tube is .41" and that's the biggest restriction. I'm not sure how much flow loss you'd get on the mini valve but if the wort spins, I'm not thinking there's a problem. You can definitely siphon by accident if you leave hoses hooked up without a valve. For those that plan to only hook into it post boil, I'm thinking the Cam DC cap would be the cheapest way to go.

 

[BrunDog]

Not meaning to hijack but since it is popping up... I have your current whirlpool arm which has a compression fitting. This works really well in my config. The problem I have is pump cavitation - wort at boiling temp running through the pump then whirlpool arm at low to no restriction = cavitation and decoupling. I have thought about putting a nozzle at the exit of the whirlpool arm, but can't seem to find an off-the-shelf solution, such as a socket weld reducing fitting in SS.

Have you given this any thought with this new design or seen/heard of this issue with the old design? I suppose many whirlpool through their CFC or plate chiller which creates a restriction. I go through the chiller to sanitize it during the final stages of the boil, but then go straight from pump to arm for the whirlpool stage. The volume really creates a legit hop/trub cone.

 

[m00ps]

FWIW, I have a "Swirlboss" on my Brewboss EBIAB setup that is basically positioned just like that. But it hangs from the top of the kettle and is adjustable because you actually want the outlet ABOVE the level of the wort to both aerate and create a better whirlpool. Ive both tried and seen videos on whirlpooling above and below the liquid and it definitely works better above

 

[BrunDog]

FWIW, I have a "Swirlboss" on my Brewboss EBIAB setup that is basically positioned just like that. But it hangs from the top of the kettle and is adjustable because you actually want the outlet ABOVE the level of the wort to both aerate and create a better whirlpool. Ive both tried and seen videos on whirlpooling above and below the liquid and it definitely works better above

I disagree. Swirling the surface is not the key - swirling somewhere in the middle is. Also, I am not sure that aerating hot wort is a good thing. Aerating cold wort is (and mind aepsis simultaneously).

 

[m00ps]

Yeah, Ive read differing opinions. But if you check out , it seems to demonstrate my point

As for hot side aeration, I think that's a myth on a homebrewing level. My whirlpool device aerates enough to foam up to the top of my kettle sometimes. And I whirlpool continuously for over an hour for my IPAs. If hot side aeration was a thing, my beers would be undrinkable from being entirely littered by it

 

[BrunDog]

Sorry man... That video is absolute crap. He has declared the whirlpool more effective because he is essentially fooled of all of the "action" on the surface.

My arm mounts a few inches from the bottom and I get a picture perfect cone after 10 mins or whirlpooling.

Anyway, it's your system and brew, do what you like. But ask commercial breweries if they whirlpool from the surface, then decide if this is really the correct method.

I think the BB system is awesome, but personally, I would question the credibility of an add-on which is nothing more than a copper tube.

 

[AnOldUR]

If you run a kitchen mixer at the top of your bowl you get lots of surface movement and a nice frothy appearance, but did you actually mix anything up?

 

[cantrell00]

As for hot side aeration, I think that's a myth on a homebrewing level. My whirlpool device aerates enough to foam up to the top of my kettle sometimes. And I whirlpool continuously for over an hour for my IPAs. If hot side aeration was a thing, my beers would be undrinkable from being entirely littered by it

Completely agree with you about hot side aeration. I generate foam just like you mentioned as well. Damn if I've ever tasted any negative impact to the beer.

I've whirlpooled at the top, middle & bottom with practically zero difference in hop coning on 5-10 gal batches too.

 

[zgja2]

The outlet is positioned to keep it under the surface of the lowest batch size. If you have a 15 gallon pot and do both 5 and 10 gallon batches, it's best to have the outlet at the 4 gallon mark. Keep in mind that I'm not making a case for whirlpooling over not whirlpooling or using a pump and this device over just using a spoon. If you have a pump and want to whirlpool, you're not going to find a better hardware solution.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1Sk6VFnbg

I Have a 15 Gallon Bayou Classic with the SS basket. I use the basket lined with a mesh bag for BIAB brews. Will this item allow me to still use the basket. There is about 1/2-3/4 in gap (i think) between the wall and the basket. Thoughts?

 

[ViciousFishes]

I recently ordered new 15G kettles from Spike and had a recirculation port welded near the top. I picked up a chugger, plate chiller, cam locks and connection kits from Bobby. I am going to wet test everything today prior to first brew. Was planning to use a 90* el with 3/8" hose barb to generate a whirlpool (see pic).

I gather from this thread that trying to whirlpool from the top may not be effective. I'm also now concerned about spraying wort everywhere. Are these valid concerns? With the welded port, what would be a more effective way of achieving a whirlpool? Seems like Bobby's new whirlpool arm would be hard to spin-thread into the in-place welded port?

I have similar set up on the MLT and was going to use a length of high-temp silicon hose purchased from Bobby to recirculate during the mash. That approach still seems okay?

 

[m00ps]

Even without the lid on my kettle, whirlpooling at just above the wort surface doesnt spray wort outside my kettle. Maybe if you didnt have proper headspace above the wort it may get messy.

Maybe it isnt necessarily MORE effective to do it above the surface, but it definitely has the benefit of aerating it. All I know is I get a cone at the center of my wort every time. Brew Boss demonstrated this with a handful of grains tossed into their wet run test. Darin from Brew Boss seems pretty damn smart, I wouldnt question his reasoning for positioning the device where he did

 

[AnOldUR]

With the welded port, what would be a more effective way of achieving a whirlpool?

Maybe removing the hose barb and using one of these attached to your elbow with the elbow angled down.

 

[Bobby_M]

I also show in the video that I have thread in style whirlpool setups for welded fittings.

It's this one: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/whirpoolthreadin.htm

In no way would I recommend the whirlpool outlet be above the wort level. If you did want that, I can mod it to do that for you but...

I wouldn't recommend trying to run a pump full bore when the wort is over 180F anyway. Pumps just don't like it and you can easily clamp it off with the valve on the pump. The new whirlpools do use 1/2" OD tubing rather than 5/8" so there is a small increase in restriction.

 

[Bobby_M]

I Have a 15 Gallon Bayou Classic with the SS basket. I use the basket lined with a mesh bag for BIAB brews. Will this item allow me to still use the basket. There is about 1/2-3/4 in gap (i think) between the wall and the basket. Thoughts?

No, I don't think it will fit behind the basket. It sticks out from the kettle about 7/8"

 

[WiscBadger]

I may have to pick up one of these.

 

[orangehero]

As for hot side aeration, I think that's a myth on a homebrewing level. My whirlpool device aerates enough to foam up to the top of my kettle sometimes. And I whirlpool continuously for over an hour for my IPAs. If hot side aeration was a thing, my beers would be undrinkable from being entirely littered by it

Why would you whirlpool for over an hour? In general the gentler you are with the wort and beer the better. Aeration aside shear stress is not desirable either.

 

[kevink]

Why would you whirlpool for over an hour? In general the gentler you are with the wort and beer the better. Aeration aside shear stress is not desirable either.

Long hop stands/steeps. My last beer had 2.25 hours of whirlpooling and was the best beer I have ever brewed. I did it partially by hand because it was too cold out (I didn't want too much heat loss through pump hoses), but in the warmer months I plan to let the pump go for that long.

 

[The_Bishop]

This looks very familiar.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6824795&postcount=20

 

[AnOldUR]

Bobby. I like the looks of the Spincycle better than what I'm using now, but already have a hole drilled that I'd want to use. The tube would have to be shorter than the 10" drop length. I have a tube bender. Do you see any problem in cutting it off and bending it? What's the wall thickness?