A little help for the noobie

[Freskhu]

Hi all, i am preparing to craft my first all grain. Miam making my kit for almost 1 month, i got:
- cooler for mash
- keg as boiler
- counterflow chiller
- fermenter
- other menor things

I am having difficult to understand the temperatures of the mash... Many places speak only on 1 temperature, others speak about 2 and 3 temperatures (rest spots). I already read
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Decoction_Mashing_Video_-_Transcript

Só should we mash with the different temperatures?

About sanitizing i got the point and the products, what about cleaning? I use the same product?

Thank you

 

[Spartan300man]

Cleaner and sanitizer are two different things. I use Star-San as the sanitizer. I usually clean stuff good with the cleaner after using, and sanitize before using the next time.

If you are just starting out, you sure have a lot of equipment. I have a pot, and a bucket, and a carboy.

Many people will suggest a single mash temp, between 148 and 154, the higher end giving you more sweetness in the beer, the lower end resulting in a dryer beer. Once you get into different specialty grains, the different temps might come into play, but with the basic 2-row malt these days, the single mash temp is more than adequate for great beer.

 

[Takuie]

I rarely even mash out anymore these days. I hit my mas temp for my recipe, batch sparge, ferment and enjoy. If I had an electric setup, I would probably go for different rest periods and what not, but until then I keep it simple.

 

[dbark]

I agree with Spartan300man, clean your equipment till it looks clean without any visible gunk, then use a good sanitizer. I use Starsan like alot of people here. A little goes a long way, follow the directions. If your equipment was thoroughly cleaned, you might be able to reuse a good portion of the sanitizer as well.

I'm not positive but it sounds like this might be your first brew? I suggest that you should stick to a single target temp till you see how your equipment and configuration works for you. My first brews taught me alot about brew day organization.

 

[Freskhu]

Hello!
Thank You for your replys.
Can i clean with normal dish washing product?
About the temps, i will try a pilsner. Near to me i have a shop with premade recipes, in these case 3 types of grain(for these case pilsner, crystal and munich), hops and yelds. They announce to use 3 temps; can i use only 1 with these grains?
Almost all movies i see in YouTube Is with coolers and only 1 temp; i got confused because of that; almost all movies are with only 1 temp and they use complex recipes.
Thank you

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Hello!
Thank You for your replys.
Can i clean with normal dish washing product?

I would recommend against it. Most dishwashing liquids leave a residue that can affect beer, and specifically will kill the head. They also generally have some sort of added scent which can lead to off flavors.

In my experience, the best thing for cleaning in brewing is a specialty product by Five Star (the same ones that make StarSan) called 'Powdered Brewery Wash'. PBW is very effective and easy to use; while it is expensive, a little goes a long way.

 

[doug293cz]

Hello!
Thank You for your replys.
Can i clean with normal dish washing product?
About the temps, i will try a pilsner. Near to me i have a shop with premade recipes, in these case 3 types of grain(for these case pilsner, crystal and munich), hops and yelds. They announce to use 3 temps; can i use only 1 with these grains?
Almost all movies i see in YouTube Is with coolers and only 1 temp; i got confused because of that; almost all movies are with only 1 temp and they use complex recipes.
Thank you

You shouldn't use dish soap on brewing equipment. It is difficult to rinse completely and can affect flavor and head retention. If you can get PBW (Powdered Brewery Wash) or Oxiclean Free, they work well for cleaning. If you can't get those, baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) plus hydrogen peroxide will create sodium percarbonate, which is one of the primary ingredients in PBW and Oxiclean.

In order to make a Pilsner (or any other lager) you need to be able to control your fermentation temperatures to around 50°F (10°C). If you don't have the capability to do that, then you should look into using ale yeasts.

Brew on

 

[Freskhu]

You shouldn't use dish soap on brewing equipment. It is difficult to rinse completely and can affect flavor and head retention. If you can get PBW (Powdered Brewery Wash) or Oxiclean Free, they work well for cleaning. If you can't get those, baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) plus hydrogen peroxide will create sodium percarbonate, which is one of the primary ingredients in PBW and Oxiclean.

In order to make a Pilsner (or any other lager) you need to be able to control your fermentation temperatures to around 50°F (10°C). If you don't have the capability to do that, then you should look into using ale yeasts.

Brew on

Hi there, thank you for your help!
How do you mean like control the temperaturas around 10C ? Going up 10 to 10 degrees? Or having the mash temp +/- 10 degrees of the mash temp?
Thank you

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

About the temps, i will try a pilsner. Near to me i have a shop with premade recipes, in these case 3 types of grain(for these case pilsner, crystal and munich), hops and yelds. They announce to use 3 temps; can i use only 1 with these grains?
[/QUOTE]

What specifically are the instructions saying about the rest temperatures, and when are they recommending each?

Almost all movies i see in YouTube Is with coolers and only 1 temp; i got confused because of that; almost all movies are with only 1 temp and they use complex recipes.

That's because most of the recipes in question are designed for what is called a single infusion mash, which is where you get the mash water to a temperature slightly above the intended mash temperature, then mix the water and malt together into the mash tun. It's a method developed in England and most English malts are malted and kilned in a manner to accommodate it.

These days, many American and European malts are also suitable for single infusion mashing, but they still work better with either a step infusion mash (where you start the lower temperature rests with less mash water and add progressively hotter water to raise the temperature), a direct heat mash (where you mash in a heated kettle), or a decoction mash (where part of the mash - both water and grain - are removed from the mash and boiled, then added back to raise the temperature of the mash as a whole). In each of these cases, the goal is to have different rests at different temperatures, for altering the protein content of the beer, for manipulating the pH, and for controlling the starch conversion.

Decoction is the classic method for most lagers, including pilsners, but I suspect that the recommendations in the kit instructions are for something different. My guess is that the recipe is either a partial mash recipe, or an extract and specialty malt recipe, and that the first temperature is the steeping temperature for the malt. Did the recipe call for any malt extract? Also, does it give a temperature (or more than one) for after you have boiled the wort and have pitched the yeast? Those would be the fermentation temperature and the lagering temperature, probably.

 

[Freskhu]

About the temps, i will try a pilsner. Near to me i have a shop with premade recipes, in these case 3 types of grain(for these case pilsner, crystal and munich), hops and yelds. They announce to use 3 temps; can i use only 1 with these grains?

What specifically are the instructions saying about the rest temperatures, and when are they recommending each?


That's because most of the recipes in question are designed for what is called a single infusion mash, which is where you get the mash water to a temperature slightly above the intended mash temperature, then mix the water and malt together into the mash tun. It's a method developed in England and most English malts are malted and kilned in a manner to accommodate it.

These days, many American and European malts are also suitable for single infusion mashing, but they still work better with either a step infusion mash (where you start the lower temperature rests with less mash water and add progressively hotter water to raise the temperature), a direct heat mash (where you mash in a heated kettle), or a decoction mash (where part of the mash - both water and grain - are removed from the mash and boiled, then added back to raise the temperature of the mash as a whole).

Decoction is the classic method for most lagers, including pilsners, but I suspect that the recommendations in the kit instructions are for something different. My guess is that the recipe is either a partial mash recipe, or an extract and specialty malt recipe, and that the first temperature is the steeping temperature for the malt. Did the recipe call for any malt extract?[/QUOTE]

Hello there, thank you for your help.
In récipe they ask 40-50 degrees, than 50-60 degrees than 60-72 degrees... And Yes, its a all grain. If i use only 1 temp i will loose a lot of flavor?
Thank you!

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

In récipe they ask 40-50 degrees, than 50-60 degrees than 60-72 degrees...

Ah, OK, it is probably designed for step infusion, then. The first two are different starch conversion rests - the first mainly for the beta-conversion, the second for the alpha-conversion - while the last is the mash-out (which raises the temperature to a point that kills the enzymes, stopping the conversion). This is an approach that has been popularized by John Palmer's book How to Brew, and it does give better control over the mash than a single temperature starch rest.

What you'll need to do is figure out how much heated water you will need to add each time to get the right. The recipe may already give you this, or you may need to work it out yourself - probably the latter, as different equipment would require different amounts. Beersmith 2 has tools for calculating the infusion temperatures and amounts, though I have had some trouble with it in the past when trying this method - I ended up with a much greater amount of mash runoff than I could readily boil off.

If i use only 1 temp i will loose a lot of flavor?

Hard to say, really. The approach outlined above will generally give you better control over the starch conversion, so there would probably be some difference, but I don't know how much. If you do choose to go with a single conversion rest, I would use a temperature around 50 degrees C for a 60 minute rest, which will provide some room for both beta and alpha conversion, and give a medium body.

 

[Freskhu]

Ah, OK, it is probably designed for step infusion, then. The first two are different starch conversion rests - the first mainly for the beta-conversion, the second for the alpha-conversion - while the last is the mash-out (which raises the temperature to a point that kills the enzymes, stopping the conversion). This is an approach that has been popularized by John Palmer's book How to Brew, and it does give better control over the mash than a single temperature starch rest.


Hard to say, really. The approach outlined above will generally give you better control over the starch conversion, so there would probably be some difference, but I don't know how much. If you do choose to go with a single conversion rest, I would use a temperature around 50 degrees C for a 60 minute rest, which will provide some room for both beta and alpha conversion, and give a medium body.

Probably decoating is a better way no? Or i just try to find recipes for single temp mash?
Thank you

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Probably decoating is a better way no? Or i just try to find recipes for single temp mash?
Thank you

Decocting would indeed give better results, but it is also more difficult. I would definitely get BS2 or some other software that can calculate the decoction amounts if I were to try it.

 

[Freskhu]

Decocting would indeed give better results, but it is also more difficult. I would definitely get BS2 or some other software that can calculate the decoction amounts if I were to try it.

I will buy beersmith for sure... Minewhile i was thinking... Why not buy a 3kw electric element from ebay with 10€ and use it to raise temps in the cooler? You Think its possible? You know anyone doing it?
Thank you!

 

[Freskhu]

Decocting would indeed give better results, but it is also more difficult. I would definitely get BS2 or some other software that can calculate the decoction amounts if I were to try it.

My replys are getting moderated :s what about using an electrical element to go over the rest temperatures? Simple putting it directly in the mash?
Did you saw someone doing it?
Thanks

 

[doug293cz]

My replys are getting moderated :s what about using an electrical element to go over the rest temperatures? Simple putting it directly in the mash?
Did you saw someone doing it?
Thanks

If you are going to put a heating element into the mash, you need to recirculate the mash constantly to prevent the mash from scorching.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Hi there, thank you for your help!
How do you mean like control the temperaturas around 10C ? Going up 10 to 10 degrees? Or having the mash temp +/- 10 degrees of the mash temp?
Thank you

I was talking about fermentation. Lager yeasts need cool temperatures to work well. The temperature during fermentation (within the beer, not the surrounding environment) needs to be held to 10° -13°C. You need a way to keep the fermenting beer at that temperature.

For mashing, I would recommend a single temperature mash for your first all grain brew. There will be enough new things going on that you need to manage, that trying a step (multiple temperature) mash could overwhelm you the first time thru an all grain mash. If you had an experienced all grain brewer that could help you, then a multiple step mash might be doable. For mash temps, you should try to control those withing + or minus 1°, although if you are a little farther off, you will still get beer. It just may not come out as you wanted it to (might come out thinner and dryer if mash temp is low, or sweeter and maltier if the temp is high.)

Brew on

 

[Freskhu]

Hi there!
Thank you all again.
For fermenting i have an old fridge with a temperature control.
To raise temp for the rests i can use the element to mix the mash no? It's just 10 degrees, it should be fast no?