A few newbie questions

[LeSolo]

Hey peps,

Long-time follower (2 months ) first time poster. I bought a beginner kit and started my second lager brew 2 weeks ago. I have a few questions about my experience so far which I haven’t been able to find out.

1. My first brew had a suggested pitching temperature of 18-26C (64-79F) and I ended up pitching at 36C (97F) . There is a slight off flavour in the beer (although still very drinkable) and have concluded it was because of the high temperature. If this situation were to arise again (I doubt it will) could I just wait for the temperature to drop down to the suggested before I pitched the yeast?

2. I conditioned the bottles from my first brew in the cupboard above our hot water cylinder which has a constant temperature of 22-24C (71-75F). They have been in there since bottling about 4 weeks ago. Is there any downside to leaving them at this temperature and putting a few in the fridge as I need them?

3. I’ve also seen comments regarding the length of time to leave the beer in the fridge for a time before you drink. Is it not enough to just cool the beer? What can I expect to gain from a beer that has been in the fridge 3 days as opposed to a few hours?

4. My first brew was a lot clearer than what I was expecting although there is still a little bit of residual gunk in the bottom of the bottles. I used finings with my earlier batch and was trying to come up with ways to maximize the clarity without having doing the whole secondary fermentation stage. What if the week leading up to bottling I added an extra round or 2 of finings? Would the first round catch everything there was to catch so making any extra rounds pointless?

Thanks for your help in advance

 

[Hello]

1. Off flavors definitely from the hot temps. You could have easily killed your yeast pitching that warm. Don't do it again is my recommendation. Yes, chill beer using a chiller or ice bath until it reaches around 70.

2. Sitting at that temp in bottles is good.

3. Chilling for at least 24-48 hours (58 is ideal) helps the yeast drop out of suspension and regulates the CO2, if I recall. Patience is key here.

4. Beers bottled carbed need yeast. Adding finings could cause the yeast to drop and not make it to the bottle. You can readd yeast but I just don't. You can get clear beer still. I'll let someone else chime in about adding finings at bottling but I think you'll run into carbonation issues.

Congrats on your first beer.

 

[Valtyr]

I agree with what Hello said. The only things I can think of to add is that a longer primary fermentation (around 3 weeks, more if you feel like it) will usually help clear your beer just as well as a secondary or using finings. You could also consider cold crashing in your fridge, if you have the ability to do so, before you bottle. That should also help clear it up quite well, while still leaving enough yeast to effectively carbonate in the bottle.

When you bottle condition, you'll still end up with a little bit of sludge at the bottom of the bottle, but it should be very minimal. When you carbonate, it goes through what I'd describe as a mini-fermentation. The yeast still in suspension eat the priming sugar, giving off the carbon dioxide that carbonates the beer. After they're done, they drop to the bottom of the bottle, causing the tiny bit of yeast cake.

Congrats on your first beer. Sounds like a good learning experience, and it sounds like the beer still tastes pretty good. If you enjoy the end product, that's what really matters in my opinion.

 

[gregfreemyer]

Re: a few hours in fridge

A friend of mine is a beer connoisseur. He's judged at competitions, but he hasn't brewed much.

2 weeks ago he came by the house and I said I had some homebrew that had been in the bottle 2 weeks, but I hadn't put it in the fridge yet. He said, let's just put it in the freezer for a while, then try one.

I told him cold beer can dissolve more CO2 than warm beer so I had read it takes a couple days in the fridge for the CO2 in the bottle head space to fully saturate the beer and make it well carbonated. His response was it couldn't make that much difference, so we tried it.

The first thing he said after the first sip was - it's undercarbonated.

I said - duh

==
Overall it sounds like you are trying to rush the beer. I find at 5 weeks total my beer is fairly good, but the taste keeps improving until about 12 weeks total.

I'm not so sure it matters where the beer spends that time. Primary, secondary, bottles - ignoring the first week of primary fermentation, the conditioning process is fairly slow, you have to give the beer time to condition. I always wait at least 3 weeks before I bottle.

My current batches:
Wit bier - 10 days in primary, will rack to a carboy this weekend (the primary fermentation took a long time to complete)
Maibock - 7 days in primary, 4 weeks in secondary, currently cold crashing, will bottle this weekend
Grand cru - 7 days in primary, 3 weeks in secondary, almost 4 weeks in bottles. I had a couple last weekend. Really good, but I suspect still improving.

I tend to only brew / rack / bottle on Saturdays, so everything is measured in weeks.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

If you are brewing a lager as you say, those temperatures should be much lower for fermentation. Which yeast are you using? And if you want true clean lager flavour you should be lagering for a month at very low temperature after fermentation stops (Lager means "to store"). This can be done in the bottles, after priming you let the bottles carbonate at ideal yeast temp for a few weeks then you put the bottles in the fridge and leave them alone for a month. This alone will make a huge difference in flavour, if you are using ale yeast however, disregard everything I just said. If you don't have the ability to lager your brew I'd suggest sticking to ales until you have the setup you need, lagering can be a pain...

 

[unionrdr]

I was wondering myself if you might've brewed the Cooper's OS (Original Series) Lager? If yes,then it uses their ale yeast,making it a light colored pale ale. In that case,18C would be a better ferment temp. 3-4 weeks in the bottles around 20C to carb & condition. If you give the beer time to reach a stable FG in primary,then give it another 3-7 days to clean up any by products of fermentation & settle out clear or slightly misty it'll give less trub in the bottles. Then 1 week fridge time to get co2 into solution,not a quick process. That week will also give any chill haze a chance to form & settle out as well. Gives clearer beer,good head & compacts the yeast/trub on the bottom better. You do it right & there'll be a light dusting on the bottom of the bottles. 2 weeks fridge time gives thicker head & longer lasting carbonation.

 

[NeoBrew]

All the above advice is good. You should find a way to cool your wort before pitching as Hello said. The faster you cool it the better. This can help with "cold break" and aid in beer clarity. If for some reason you can't stabilize the temp, it is just fine to wait a day to pitch your yeast. Just be very cautious with your sanitation.

Above your water heater sounds like a good place to carbonate your bottles, but once it's carbed I'd find a cooler place to store them. Cooler temps will help your beer age and condition more slowly.

 

[kombat]

I said I had some homebrew that had been in the bottle 2 weeks, but I hadn't put it in the fridge yet. He said, let's just put it in the freezer for a while, then try one.

I told him cold beer can dissolve more CO2 than warm beer so I had read it takes a couple days in the fridge for the CO2 in the bottle head space to fully saturate the beer and make it well carbonated.

I'm not denying the veracity of your story, but I've got to admit, I never understood this either. If I buy a 6-pack of beer from the shelf in the store and bring it home, I can throw a bottle in the freezer to chill it quickly, and 20 minutes later, it's nice and cold and well-carbonated. Why would bottle-carbed beers need several days to get that CO2 back into solution when it only takes a few minutes for a store-bought beer?

I understand one is bottle-conditioned and one is force-carbonated, but that shouldn't make a difference, should it? I mean, both beers have 2.3 (or whatever) volumes of CO2 in them, right? So at room temperature, they'll both have 30 psi or whatever of pressure in the headspace in the neck of the bottle, leaving however much CO2 in solution. As you chill it, the pressure in the headspace in the neck drops as the CO2 goes back into solution. So why would this take several days in the case of homebrew, but not for force-carbed beers?

Can someone explain the physics of this? Or was your beer just undercarbed anyway, and waiting 2 more days wouldn't actually have made any difference?

 

[Hello]

I can't nor will I attempt to explain the physics but I also do know that any yeast floating around the home brew will drop to the bottom which won't happen in 20 minutes, freezer or not.

So even if the theory of 2 days in the fridge is debunked, I would like to get most of that yeast to the bottom and compact the yeast cake a bit before I pour.

 

[dstranger99]

1. My first brew had a suggested pitching temperature of 18-26C (64-79F) and I ended up pitching at 36C (97F) . There is a slight off flavour in the beer (although still very drinkable) and have concluded it was because of the high temperature. If this situation were to arise again (I doubt it will) could I just wait for the temperature to drop down to the suggested before I pitched the yeast?

Wow, way too hot. Use an ice bath in your sink to get that temp down to the 60's, or buy yourself a wort chiller.......

 

[boydster]

I'm not denying the veracity of your story, but I've got to admit, I never understood this either. If I buy a 6-pack of beer from the shelf in the store and bring it home, I can throw a bottle in the freezer to chill it quickly, and 20 minutes later, it's nice and cold and well-carbonated. Why would bottle-carbed beers need several days to get that CO2 back into solution when it only takes a few minutes for a store-bought beer?

I understand one is bottle-conditioned and one is force-carbonated, but that shouldn't make a difference, should it? I mean, both beers have 2.3 (or whatever) volumes of CO2 in them, right? So at room temperature, they'll both have 30 psi or whatever of pressure in the headspace in the neck of the bottle, leaving however much CO2 in solution. As you chill it, the pressure in the headspace in the neck drops as the CO2 goes back into solution. So why would this take several days in the case of homebrew, but not for force-carbed beers?

Can someone explain the physics of this? Or was your beer just undercarbed anyway, and waiting 2 more days wouldn't actually have made any difference?

This was discussed in the Brew Science forum, and the idea that the bottles need extended fridge time to get CO2 into solution is false. Other factors, like chill haze creating nucleation sites for the CO2 to come OUT of solution, make for good reason to give your beer some fridge time. I will find and post the link.

 

[boydster]

Here it is: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/carbonation-differences-bottles-varying-temps-441011/

 

[unionrdr]

From my experiences,commercial beers are fully carbonated going into the bottles,save for bottle conditioned ones,which sit for a while as I understand it. Home brews aren't carbonated till carb/condition time. That mostly goes into the head space in room temp beers. Fridge time makes the beer cold enough to allow easier absorption of the co2 in the head space. Over a week or two,it slowly reaches equilibrium between the co2 going into solution & that in the head space. It isn't a fast process with home brew,since it isn't carbed yet so far as co2 in solution is concerned. This is from personal observations.