A few malt husks getting through the false bottom

[stickyfinger]

I finally brewed my first batch on my new single tier E-HERMS setup. I have a 20 gallon concord pot with a Jaybird false bottom. I recirculated for an hour during the mash and had really clear wort. Then, I started sparging, and when I adjusted the ball valve on my wort pump, I noticed some malt husks and particles slowly moving out of the mashtun periodically and into my boil kettle. I don't really want any of that getting into my kettle, and I was wondering how other people deal with any loose particles on the floor of the mashtun being sucked up into the boil kettle periodically. I thought about putting a straining apparatus on the pick up tube in the mashtun, but I don't want to get a stuck recirculation, so I thought it might be best to put some kind of strainer onto my hose going into my boil kettle, maybe just a food grade, high temp plastic bag while I sparge or a fancy stainless strainer with quick disconnect on it to match my hose disconnect! Do y'all have any ideas. I just need a fine mesh strainer to catch any little particles that happen to make it out of the mashtun.

 

[ReverseMonk]

Nothing to worry about. You'll drive yourself crazy trying stop every little bit of anything transferring into your boil kettle. No harm with what you're seeing.

 

[Thedutchtouch]

You answered your own question, just use a strainer. You could also use a small voile (BIAB material) bag, or as the first reply said, not worry about it.

 

[Punx Clever]

The false bottom I have for my keg-tun has large enough holes in it to goof with my pump during re-circulation.

Solution: Place the false bottom inside a 5-gallon paint strainer bag.

 

[stickyfinger]

I'll try it again and see if I can mess with the flow less and disturb the stuff under the false bottom less. If not, I'll try a little filter screen on my hose. Thanks for the input.

 

[dstar26t]

I use a grant with a paint strainer bag inside. I've tried many things but still get grain particles at some point during lautering.

 

[tootal]

It's no big deal. Relax, have a home brew!

 

[mpmccann]

It's no big deal. Relax, have a home brew!

+1
Agreed

 

[stickyfinger]

I need to wait and see how it tastes I suppose. I think I'll ditch my pickup tube in my MLT and try that too. My outlet port is maybe 1/2-1" from the bottom, so any particles on the floor of the mashtun would just stay there hopefully.

 

[stickyfinger]

I went crazy this morning and decided to try something out with my mash tun. I thought I'd just use some old malt that I was going to throw out, but I decided to go for making a beer before I went to work at 1:30 (as I work nights one day per week. ) I thought I'd speed up the process at every step and focus on 1) testing the mashtun clarification and 2) test the hop stopper again and hopefully come out of the morning with a beer that tastes decent if I didn't screw up the mash, as I didn't have much time to brew this morning!

So, I decided to do a pale ale, at around 1.050 (minimum OG i'd probably use for a 6 gallon batch so it is a worst case scenario for all barley-malt mashes at least for me). I decided to put in my old mash tun SS braid. It is a ~30" piece of ~3/8" SS braid in a circle with a copper tee that i then was able to hook onto my pickup tube in my mashtun. It was more or less right in the middle of the mashtun. The mashtun is a 20 gallon concord pot and only had around 10 pounds of malt at 1.2 qts/lb this morning, so it was only maybe 5 inches thick.

Oh, I also crushed my malt finer today, back to around 0.040" from the 0.045" I tried on my last brew when I got terrible mash efficiency. So, I mashed in at 1.2 qts/lb and slowly opened the pump valve. It was flowing fine, so I cautiously opened it up more and then just tried to open it up at a good enough flow that the MLT temp would at least stay at 154F. It seemed to work fine. The wort was really clear after several minutes, so I cranked it open all of the way, and the wort was flowing great. I opted not to measure the flow rate so I wouldn't disturb the malt bed.

So, I then did a quick mashout to 168F, reconnected the 2 hoses you have to reconnect to start the sparge, and set my flow rate at around 0.67 cups/15 seconds (to try for around a 45 min. sparge.) My initial runnings let me know I had around a 94% mash efficiency, much better than last time! The wort was very clear and no particles really. So, I just kept collecting wort. I checked the flow again, and it was a bit slow, so I sped it up a bit to 0.67 again. It pretty much stayed like that for 45 minutes. My sparge efficiency was not fantastic, about 83%, but that is about as good as my old system would usually get, so it's not horrible.

So, I think I'm going to just switch over to using my SS braid for my "false bottom." I've used that in all of my mashtuns for years, but I thought I'd get fancy with the real false bottom with this system. It just works so much better with the SS braid when I have a tiny mash in the huge 20 gallon kettle! I am using a Concord kettle. I can't believe it flowed so well! Maybe I'll try getting some 1/2" or 3/4" SS braid just as more of an insurance policy against sticking it, but I think this one would work fine! I wish I could return my false bottom, but I think I have to keep it as I had a custom logo printed onto it by Jay at NorCal. To be fair to Jay's false bottom, I am trying to use it with way too small of a mash in a 20 gallon kettle. I'm sure it would work fine for a 10 gallon batch.

 

[stickyfinger]

Just wanted to post a follow-up. I have been using either my NorCal false bottom with a hosebraid under it OR the hosebraid alone in my mashtun and have had really good results. I started conditioning my malt before crushing it, and have had really good recirculation and no husk matter in the runoff. The hosebraid is an excellent primary or secondary filter for removing any husks and such. However, the dunkel I made that was kind of cloudy and had some husks in it is really very good after lagering for a few months. I guess it isn't that big of a deal as long as you're not boiling up a huge amount of husks and stuff in the boil kettle.

 

[msa8967]

I finally brewed my first batch on my new single tier E-HERMS setup. I have a 20 gallon concord pot with a Jaybird false bottom. I recirculated for an hour during the mash and had really clear wort. Then, I started sparging, and when I adjusted the ball valve on my wort pump, I noticed some malt husks and particles slowly moving out of the mashtun periodically and into my boil kettle. I don't really want any of that getting into my kettle, and I was wondering how other people deal with any loose particles on the floor of the mashtun being sucked up into the boil kettle periodically. I thought about putting a straining apparatus on the pick up tube in the mashtun, but I don't want to get a stuck recirculation, so I thought it might be best to put some kind of strainer onto my hose going into my boil kettle, maybe just a food grade, high temp plastic bag while I sparge or a fancy stainless strainer with quick disconnect on it to match my hose disconnect! Do y'all have any ideas. I just need a fine mesh strainer to catch any little particles that happen to make it out of the mashtun.

I use a voile cloth sleeve that slips onto my stainless steel hose braid. Kind of like a sock covering a foot but not as tight. You can also use a pair of panty hose that slips over the hose braid. I have never gotten a stuck sparge with this method. You can secure the sleeve with a plastic zip tie. Provides a perfect filter system for my brewing system. You can also use the sleeve end of a voile curtain for a basic filter if you don't want to sew one.

 

[RocketBrewer]

I had a very similar problem with my HERMS system. I have a bottom draining Keggle with a nice false bottom. The biggest problem I had with the grains getting by was the sparge. The bits of grain would start clogging the ball valve on my pump that I use to throttle flow. I had to constantly open it farther to get the husks to pass, and then shut it down again. It made sparging a real chore! Yooper suggested using a BIAB type bag in the MLT along with the false bottom. I had one custom made for my setup by wilserbrewer here on the forum. It only cost me a little over $20 and has worked fantastic. Once I get my flows set for my sparge, I can walk away. It also makes cleaning my tun easier since all the grain comes out with the bag and rinses out of the bag fairly easy. This was a great solution for my issues, just thought I'd pass along another option for anyone else.

 

[stickyfinger]

I don't see any downside to having a secondary filter under the false bottom. It doesn't seem to impede flow hardly at all if any, and it catches all of the small bits. A bag or braid seems to work fine.

I'm still debating whether I even need the false bottom. I thought maybe my sparging would be more efficient with it since it should theoretically pull more evenly across the entire bottom of the bed vs using a single ring of hose braid. My dead space is huge with the false bottom, but i usually mash thin anyway.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I use a grant with a paint strainer bag inside. I've tried many things but still get grain particles at some point during lautering.

I use a grant with rice hulls as the filter material. I recirculate through the grant prior to the chilling stage to set the bed and trap trub. Only clear wort makes it way into my plate chiller as a result.

 

[stickyfinger]

Huh, that's a very interesting idea. I wonder if I could recirculate fast enough to keep my whirlpool going in my kettle. I could definitely try doing that. It might be worth it if it traps all of the hops and break material. My whirlpool works pretty awesomely though.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Huh, that's a very interesting idea. I wonder if I could recirculate fast enough to keep my whirlpool going in my kettle. I could definitely try doing that. It might be worth it if it traps all of the hops and break material. My whirlpool works pretty awesomely though.

I've never had an issue. Rice hulls are cheap, biodegradable, and no need to clean them after use. I don't want any of that kettle crap in my plate chiller except the wort itself.

 

[stickyfinger]

Do you flow the wort from the kettle directly onto the rice hulls and then drain from the grant back into the kettle? Could it filter out several ounces of pellet hops without clogging or do you just use whole cone hops?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Do you flow the wort from the kettle directly onto the rice hulls and then drain from the grant back into the kettle? Could it filter out several ounces of pellet hops without clogging or do you just use whole cone hops?

I do. It does. I very rarely use leaf hops. I use a pre-fab grant from morebeer. Pre-fitted with tri-clamp ferrules and has it's own false bottom. I usually load it with a couple handfuls of rice hulls and recirculate from kettle to grant to kettle, keeping it all just below boiling, while prepping my chiller for service. Once I am satisfied with the clarity, I swap lines to my chiller. Circulate to sanitize and then pass it all into the fermentor.

 

[dstar26t]

I do. It does. I very rarely use leaf hops. I use a pre-fab grant from morebeer. Pre-fitted with tri-clamp ferrules and has it's own false bottom. I usually load it with a couple handfuls of rice hulls and recirculate from kettle to grant to kettle, keeping it all just below boiling, while prepping my chiller for service. Once I am satisfied with the clarity, I swap lines to my chiller. Circulate to sanitize and then pass it all into the fermentor.

Have you tried running chilled wort over rice hulls to remove cold break? That would be awesome, instead of waiting hours for it to settle. I only separate cold break for light to amber colored lagers.

 

[Dewrag]

I don't see any downside to having a secondary filter under the false bottom. It doesn't seem to impede flow hardly at all if any, and it catches all of the small bits. A bag or braid seems to work fine.

I'm still debating whether I even need the false bottom. I thought maybe my sparging would be more efficient with it since it should theoretically pull more evenly across the entire bottom of the bed vs using a single ring of hose braid. My dead space is huge with the false bottom, but i usually mash thin anyway.

Dito... I have three gallons of dead space under my false bottom. I tried mashing without it and my gravity landed where I wanted it. The only drawback I see to no false bottom is if you use a heat source under the mash tun and scorch the grains. I try to keep my heat really low and raise the temp slow.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Have you tried running chilled wort over rice hulls to remove cold break? That would be awesome, instead of waiting hours for it to settle. I only separate cold break for light to amber colored lagers.

I have not. Cold break never bothered me. Never seen the point in washing/banking yeast.

 

[dstar26t]

I have not. Cold break never bothered me. Never seen the point in washing/banking yeast.

Ever brew 12 gallons of 1.086 OG Doppelbock?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Ever brew 12 gallons of 1.086 OG Doppelbock?

12, no. 10, yes.

 

[dstar26t]

12, no. 10, yes.

Assuming you repitch for that sucker, I find life easier without all the break material when it comes to handling the yeast. Smaller containers are needed for storage and it's easier to take samples for counts/viability. I will try that rice hull trick for removing cold break one of these times, thanks for mentioning it. I installed a rotating racking arm on my kettle to help with leaving cold break behind. The point of diminishing returns for settling in the kettle is about 4 hours once the wort is cold (45-50F) on my system. If I had a conical, this would be much easier!

 

[stickyfinger]

When I was trying to separate cold break, I would rack off of the top of the hops and break material, and then pour the rest into a sanitized 5 L erlenmeyer flask. I'd let it rest overnight and then rack off of that into the already fermenting beer. I never had an off flavor related to it in my opinion. I was able to get down to 2-3 quarts of waste using that method. Filtering would be preferable if there were a way.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Assuming you repitch for that sucker, I find life easier without all the break material when it comes to handling the yeast. Smaller containers are needed for storage and it's easier to take samples for counts/viability. I will try that rice hull trick for removing cold break one of these times, thanks for mentioning it. I installed a rotating racking arm on my kettle to help with leaving cold break behind. The point of diminishing returns for settling in the kettle is about 4 hours once the wort is cold (45-50F) on my system. If I had a conical, this would be much easier!

Yeah. I never messed with repitch. Was not worth the effort to me.

 

[gwapogorilla]

I have had some REALLY stuck sparges in the past. Had to use my stir paddle to poke around in my mash tun to get things going. LOTS AND LOTS of husks got through. Meh, phuck it.
I boiled them , transfered them to fermenter with the rest of the debris and watched them churn as my yeasties did their little thing. What did I end up with?...A REALLY GOOD TASTING BEER!:rockin:

Beer is pretty resilient. As long as you clean and sanitize well....your in the good.

 

[stickyfinger]

I think I've finally mostly solved my problem with husks. First of all, the SS screen under the false bottom can cause some slowdown of the flow, so I dumped that. I now run the flow as fast as I can without compacting the grain bed too much, which I have been checking a few times during the mash. I also took off the pickup tube on my mashtun so that the outlet flow from the bulkhead on the side of the pot is all I have under my false bottom. My last beer had very clear wort and minimal particles. I think I was sucking some grain off of the mashtun floor during sparging periodically. This seems to work a lot better.

 

[stickyfinger]

I hate to be a pain in the ass on this, but I discovered that my last solution did not solve my problem for following beers. Right now, I find that I get minimal particles on 12 gallon batches in my 20 gallon kettle with Norcal false bottom. However, the flow rate slows to a trickle sometimes inexplicably. I think it is due to grain particles clogging the valve, as it is just barely open when I am sparging, especially on 6 gallon beers. On my latest brew, I tried a no-sparge brew using The Brew Bag in the mashtun:

http://www.brewinabag.com/

You just have to put a bungee cord through the loops and then tuck the bag under your mashtun return plumbing. It works amazingly well! I had no particles whatsoever. It's hard to tell if it stopped my flow to a trickle problem, as I just ran it really fast being a no-sparge runoff. I think it will work though. I still have to try it on a fly sparge beer.