A couple questions about Campden

[bradleypariah]

I recently found out in another thread that I might have chloramine in my tap water. I haven't paid for a water test yet, I just went ahead and paid the two bucks for some Campden tablets to see if it made a difference in my finished beer's aftertaste. Three questions:

1. I'm switching to BIAB on my next brew day. If I use a half-tablet of Campden on my water before adding grains, when I'm done mashing, can I safely add tap water to get to my boil volume? -or did the 152° F mash, and/or the pH change from the grains, render the tablet inert?
   
2. After the boil & cool, and I'm transferring to my primary vessel, is the Campden still active? More to the point, can I safely add top-off water from the tap? -or do I need to treat the top off water separately?
   
3. Last question - My possible chloramine issue was brought to my attention after I had recently brewed yet another beer. That beer is several weeks old, and it's sitting in secondary now. Would adding a Campden tablet to beer that is finished fermenting accomplish anything? (Anything at all? Positive or negative)

I appreciate your insight.

 

[Morrey]

I recently found out in another thread that I might have chloride in my tap water. I haven't paid for a water test yet, I just went ahead and paid the two bucks for some Campden tablets to see if it made a difference in my finished beer's aftertaste. Three questions:

1. I'm switching to BIAB on my next brew day. If I use a half-tablet of Campden on my water before adding grains, when I'm done mashing, can I safely add tap water to get to my boil volume? -or did the 152° F mash, and/or the pH change from the grains, render the tablet inert?
2. After the boil & cool, and I'm transferring to my primary vessel, is the Campden still active? More to the point, can I safely add top-off water from the tap? -or do I need to treat the top off water separately?
   
3. Last question - My possible chloride issue was brought to my attention after I had recently brewed yet another beer. That beer is several weeks old, and it's sitting in secondary now. Would adding a Campden tablet to beer that is finished fermenting accomplish anything? (Anything at all? Positive or negative)

I appreciate your insight.

I use one half Campden tab in my full volume strike water (7.5G) when I BIAB. There may be a kettle size issue preventing you from full vol mashes, but full vol is best if at all possible. I add campden along with other salts and acid to adjust the strike water. By the time you have heated the treated strike water to mash temps, the campden will have removed the chloramines/chlorine and become neutralized.

If you are in a position to need to add a good amount of top off water, you could always treat the top off water with a few grains of Campden. Or to be on the safe side if the vol is not significant, add some distilled water.

After your beer is finished or nearing the end, I'd be hesitant to add any campden. Maybe you'll be lucky and the chlorine won't be detectable.

 

[flars]

Chloride? Do you mean chlorine or chloramines in a municipal water supply to your tap? Water contains the naturally occurring mineral chloride.

Any municipal water used at any point in brewing should be treated with Campden. Even the water used to mix a sanitizing solution. The sulfur dioxide produced is almost instantaneous. The sulfur dioxide gas produced does not stay in the water.

The off flavors produced by chlorine or chlorine in the brewing water can't be removed once produced. The beer in your fermentor can't be treated if you do notice the chlorophenol off flavor.

Hope this helps.

 

[ajdelange]

I recently found out in another thread that I might have chloramine in my tap water. I haven't paid for a water test yet, I just went ahead and paid the two bucks for some Campden tablets to see if it made a difference in my finished beer's aftertaste.

Most water tests do not check for chlorine/chloramine (though they do measure chloride). You can buy inexpensive test kits for chlorine/chloramine at swimming pool and aquarium suppliers.

I'm switching to BIAB on my next brew day. If I use a half-tablet of Campden on my water before adding grains, when I'm done mashing, can I safely add tap water to get to my boil volume? -or did the 152° F mash, and/or the pH change from the grains, render the tablet inert?

Campden tablets are sulfur dioxide in solid form. You can smell it when you add them to water. The SO2 is what reduces the chloramine/chlorine but as it is a gas dissolved in water you cannot count on it staying in solution when the solution is heated. To be certain you should treat any added water (dilution water) with Campden tablets separately.

After the boil & cool, and I'm transferring to my primary vessel, is the Campden still active? More to the point, can I safely add top-off water from the tap? -or do I need to treat the top off water separately?

Same answer here.

Last question - My possible chloramine issue was brought to my attention after I had recently brewed yet another beer. That beer is several weeks old, and it's sitting in secondary now. Would adding a Campden tablet to beer that is finished fermenting accomplish anything? (Anything at all? Positive or negative).

Once the reaction between chlorine or chloramine and pheolics has taken place adding a reducing agent (Campden tablet) cannot reverse it.


For more on this subject see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=361073

 

[bradleypariah]

Chloride? Do you mean chlorine or chloramines in a municipal water supply to your tap?

Ha! Yes. I must've been editing my post while you were writing this comment. I saw what I did as soon as I posted it, and edited with the proper term.

Thanks for the answers guys. I've really got my fingers crossed that this is going to be a miracle pill. I've been stupidly brewing for six years, suffering from the exact same off flavor the whole time. I have no idea why I never noticed all the discussions about chloramine.

I've gone from Mr. Beer, to buckets, to glass-only fermentaion. I've gone from canned kits, to DME, to LME, and now all-grain. I've gone from hop pellets to whole leaf. I've gone from bottling buckets, to auto-siphoning to a keg, to closed transfer CO2. I have suffered the exact same flavor in every single beer, brewing multiple times a month, since 2011. From Arizona to Oregon and in three difference houses with three different water sources. How did I never once treat my water with Campden? I feel very stupid, but also have very high hopes. Asked my questions here to ensure the next batch won't have yet another stupid mistake. I'm ready to drink my first beer without off-flavors. Six years, dudes. I can't believe I haven't given up.

 

[Morrey]

Ha! Yes. I must've been editing my post while you were writing this comment. I saw what I did as soon as I posted it, and edited with the proper term.

Thanks for the answers guys. I've really got my fingers crossed that this is going to be a miracle pill. I've been stupidly brewing for six years, suffering from the exact same off flavor the whole time. I have no idea why I never noticed all the discussions about chloramine.

I've gone from Mr. Beer, to buckets, to glass-only fermentaion. I've gone from canned kits, to DME, to LME, and now all-grain. I've gone from hop pellets to whole leaf. I've gone from bottling buckets, to auto-siphoning to a keg, to closed transfer CO2. I have suffered the exact same flavor in every single beer, brewing multiple times a month, since 2011. From Arizona to Oregon and in three difference houses with three different water sources. How did I never once treat my water with Campden? I feel very stupid, but also have very high hopes. Asked my questions here to ensure the next batch won't have yet another stupid mistake. I'm ready to drink my first beer without off-flavors. Six years, dudes. I can't believe I haven't given up.

I surely hope your "off flavor" problems will be solved. AJ had some sort of sniffer test to determine if your water is chlorinated. Maybe he will see this and give the way to test your water to see if you can detect anything that would have been tainting your beer. Is so, the campden will be great, but if not, the search continues. Hope for the best!

 

[ajdelange]

In #4 I referenced https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=361073. The sniff test is described there.

 

[bradleypariah]

Okay. Monkey wrench. I just called City Hall for my little town, and they said the water isn't treated with Chlorine or anything else. Perhaps I purchased the Campden tablets in haste. I'm going to go back to troubleshooting this this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=629655

I'm so bummed. That just crushed one of my last ideas about why I always dislike my beer. I am getting so tired of this.

 

[dyqik]

Try adding the Campden anyway - at worst it's an antioxidant that will take up some of the dissolved oxygen in the strike and sparge water, and there's a possibility that the person at City Hall you talked to was mistaken.

And get a Ward Labs or similar water test done, as it might reveal something in the water that is affecting your beer. From your other thread I see that there's fluoride, manganese and iron in the water - getting levels of those at your tap will be useful for working out what you need to do to make the water usable.

 

[bradleypariah]

get a Ward Labs or similar water test done, as it might reveal something in the water that is affecting your beer.

Good idea. I'll post my results somewhere on here in hopes that someone smarter than me can read it and make a recommendation.

It not like water from the grocer is super expensive, but it adds up. Tap is pennies on the dollar in comparison. Besides, I'd know for sure what was going into it if I treat it myself. If I buy filtered water, I very well may have to just put minerals back into it to make it taste the way I want.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, compact domestic RO systems capable of a couple gallons per hour with TDS output in the single digits (depending on feedwater quality) run around $200 delivered.
I finally caved this year and it was totally worth it. Aside from a highly predictable mash pH regardless of recipe or style I no longer have to use an inordinate amount of acid to neutralize the alkalinity of my well water for lighter-color brews...

Cheers!