6 Row and such

[BeerSavesLives]

I am new to all-grain, so having to deal with different grains rather than getting an extract that is already mixed with grains is a new concept for me. I was reading that the main differences in 2 row and 6 row is that 6 row used to have more diastatic enzymes to the point that you would benefit from it over 2 row in order to break down certain things in your mash. "Used" being the key word in that statement as I've also read that modern malts have pretty much made the two grains very similar in this aspect. The other main difference I have read about is that 6 Row has a husk that is better suited for allowing a steady sparge less prone to getting stuck.

Being that I've yet to actually brew an all-grain beer and have only done some research looking at other brewers' recipes I am left with this question I was hoping some could shed light on for me.

Is there a reason to add 6 Row to a recipe, or is 2 Row adequate enough to use solely as a better base malt of the two? Maybe to further expand on that, in what cases would you want to use 6 Row over 2, or is it ideal to have a ratio in each recipe?

Thank you for your time and help in advance!

 

[doug293cz]

I've never used any 6 row, and don't see a reason why I ever would. I'm sure there are lots of other brewers that have never used 6 row. 2 row has plenty of diastatic power to convert a 50-50 2 row + adjunct mash, and then some.

Brew on

 

[Qhrumphf]

A) LOTS of specialty malts are actually from 6-row, including lots of crystal malts

B) I've used 6-row in *heavily* adjuncted beers (a Cream Ale and a Malt Liquor that were both ~50% flaked maize, and even then it was maybe 50% corn, 30% pils, 20% 6 row). Otherwise 2-row will do the job.

Be careful when using English base malts. High modification plus higher kilning means they often have less enzymes than US or continental base malts.

 

[BeerSavesLives]

I've never used any 6 row, and don't see a reason why I ever would. I'm sure there are lots of other brewers that have never used 6 row. 2 row has plenty of diastatic power to convert a 50-50 2 row + adjunct mash, and then some.

Brew on

Thank you for your input. This is pretty much what I suspected from all of the reading and research on this forum I have been doing. I am currently deployed and haven't been able to brew in a little over 7 months. I have decided to get some equipment and make the jump to AG and made up some pretty basic recipes to try when I get back soon. Most had like a 60-40/70-30 2 row to 6 row ratio but after all of this I will probably just change em all to 2 row.

A) LOTS of specialty malts are actually from 6-row, including lots of crystal malts

B) I've used 6-row in *heavily* adjuncted beers (a Cream Ale and a Malt Liquor that were both ~50% flaked maize, and even then it was maybe 50% corn, 30% pils, 20% 6 row). Otherwise 2-row will do the job.

Be careful when using English base malts. High modification plus higher kilning means they often have less enzymes than US or continental base malts.

Ah that makes a lot of sense, just different modifications and kilns. In regards to B, that is really good info that I did not get elsewhere, I appreciate the knowledge. One of the recipes I made up is an oatmeal stout that uses:MO as a base malt at 47% and I have 6 row added in there at 23%. Along with 8% flaked oats and other specialties taking up the rest of the bill to get the roast flavor. Is this along the lines of what you're talking about or would you reduce the 6 row in favor of more MO, or switch out 6 row for 2 row?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Thank you for your input. This is pretty much what I suspected from all of the reading and research on this forum I have been doing. I am currently deployed and haven't been able to brew in a little over 7 months. I have decided to get some equipment and make the jump to AG and made up some pretty basic recipes to try when I get back soon. Most had like a 60-40/70-30 2 row to 6 row ratio but after all of this I will probably just change em all to 2 row.



Ah that makes a lot of sense, just different modifications and kilns. In regards to B, that is really good info that I did not get elsewhere, I appreciate the knowledge. One of the recipes I made up is an oatmeal stout that uses:MO as a base malt at 47% and I have 6 row added in there at 23%. Along with 8% flaked oats and other specialties taking up the rest of the bill to get the roast flavor. Is this along the lines of what you're talking about or would you reduce the 6 row in favor of more MO, or switch out 6 row for 2 row?

I've never had to use 6-row alongside MO. Most specialties don't need much in the way of enzymes- the manufacture of of crystal and roasted malts already converts the starches. It's when using non-enzymatic and unmalted starchy grains (typically non-barley) that it becomes an issue. With ~8% flaked grain, using all MO and no 6 row and you should have no issues.

 

[SEndorf]

The antediluvian wisdom, is that 6 row is better for high adjunct recipes.
Some folks swear by this. Most others insist it makes no difference with modern grains.
Since you're new to AG, I'd put this issue on the back burner (pun intended) and concentrate on your system, methods and efficiencies with 2 row.

 

[BeerSavesLives]

Thank you all for sharing your wisdom. I will toast my first AG beer to all of you.

 

[BigEd]

"Is there a reason to add 6 Row to a recipe, or is 2 Row adequate enough to use solely as a better base malt of the two?"

IMO the only reason would be flavor. Your reference to the past tense description of the difference between 2-row and 6-row malt is correct. While it used to be true years ago that 6-row had a significant edge in diastatic enzyme activity compared to 2-row that is no longer the case. The differences today are minimal. However, at least to me, 6-row has a "huskier"/"grittier" flavor compared to domestic 2-row. This is an advantage is certain beers, particularly CAP (Classic American Pilsner) where I think the 6-row adds that "little extra something" to the beer's flavor profile and 6-row was the base grain of choice in many of those historical brews. However, it does seem 6-row is harder to find today as the higher enzyme content of modern 2-row has made it superfluous in many suppliers' inventories.

 

[BigEd]

"A) LOTS of specialty malts are actually from 6-row, including lots of crystal malts"

As far as domestic (North American) malts go that is true but European crystal/caramel malts are usually not 6-row.

 

[Qhrumphf]

"A) LOTS of specialty malts are actually from 6-row, including lots of crystal malts"

As far as domestic (North American) malts go that is true but European crystal/caramel malts are usually not 6-row.

Right, lots but certainly not all. As far as I am aware, 6-row is overwhelmingly if not exclusively grown in North America, so that only stands to reason.

It wasn't really relevant beyond curiosity anyway.

 

[BeerSavesLives]

"Is there a reason to add 6 Row to a recipe, or is 2 Row adequate enough to use solely as a better base malt of the two?"

IMO the only reason would be flavor. Your reference to the past tense description of the difference between 2-row and 6-row malt is correct. While it used to be true years ago that 6-row had a significant edge in diastatic enzyme activity compared to 2-row that is no longer the case. The differences today are minimal. However, at least to me, 6-row has a "huskier"/"grittier" flavor compared to domestic 2-row. This is an advantage is certain beers, particularly CAP (Classic American Pilsner) where I think the 6-row adds that "little extra something" to the beer's flavor profile and 6-row was the base grain of choice in many of those historical brews. However, it does seem 6-row is harder to find today as the higher enzyme content of modern 2-row has made it superfluous in many suppliers' inventories.

Thank you as well for the extra knowledge. I had read in someone else's post that the flavor was a bit different. But the individual that was posting about it did seem to have an overwhelming bias that made it seen that they viewed 6 row as just an inferior version of two row. I like your take on it playing it to certain flavors. Thank you for the input.

 

[kevin58]

I know that 6 row is getting harder to find.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

One of the recipes I made up is an oatmeal stout that uses:MO as a base malt at 47% and I have 6 row added in there at 23%. Along with 8% flaked oats and other specialties taking up the rest of the bill to get the roast flavor. Is this along the lines of what you're talking about or would you reduce the 6 row in favor of more MO, or switch out 6 row for 2 row?

+1 to don't sweat it - these days plenty of brewers go a lifetime without using 6-row. Several decades of plant breeding (and improved agronomy) mean that it's one of those things we no longer really have to worry about that early writers obsessed over, particularly in the US.

Personally I wouldn't go crazy on the roastiness front for an oatmeal stout, if you look at the (almost) original OMS, Maclays, they used little more than pale, oat malt, invert and black. Admittedly the original recipe did have a few extra bits like linseed and liquorice, they simplified it between 1909 and 1966.

 

[skw]

Right, lots but certainly not all. As far as I am aware, 6-row is overwhelmingly if not exclusively grown in North America, so that only stands to reason.

They grow a lot of 6-row in Germany - for livestock feed. Castle Malting in Belgium makes 6-row malt too.

I've used 6-row for brewing a CAP. Haven't done a direct comparison, but my impression was that it had its own flavor - @BigEd's description as husky, gritty about describes it. I'd use it again, but it's hard to find here.

 

[Abilor]

I like 6-row, and despite modern grains which are a huge improvement, I still feel anecdotally like it's got real conversion horsepower...

 

[505-Brewer]

The craft brew movement is based on 2 row. 6 row is popular with the larger breweries using cereal cookers and lots of adjuncts due to enzyme and possibly husk benefits. 6 row also has more protein so chill haze and shelf stability could be a concern if used in high percentages.

Ive never used it but i probably should use some in a lighter beer just to see how/if any flavor evolves. Nuances......

I would stick to 2 row for now

 

[bracconiere]

just as a light hearted wise crack...i saw another thread @sixhotdogneck started about using the term 'modern malt'... and i bet he'd be upset with how often your using the term....lol

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/modern-malts-what-changed.659987/

and before i started malting 6-row feed barley...i never touched 6-row, and i did some cost saving cracked corn recipes with no problems...

 

[sixhotdogneck]

just as a light hearted wise crack...i saw another thread @sixhotdogneck started about using the term 'modern malt'... and i bet he'd be upset with how often your using the term....lol

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/modern-malts-what-changed.659987/

 

[deere322]

FYI
http://www.startribune.com/after-ne...pplier-cargill-exits-malt-business/503233552/

 

[BeerSavesLives]

+1 to don't sweat it - these days plenty of brewers go a lifetime without using 6-row. Several decades of plant breeding (and improved agronomy) mean that it's one of those things we no longer really have to worry about that early writers obsessed over, particularly in the US.

Personally I wouldn't go crazy on the roastiness front for an oatmeal stout, if you look at the (almost) original OMS, Maclays, they used little more than pale, oat malt, invert and black. Admittedly the original recipe did have a few extra bits like linseed and liquorice, they simplified it between 1909 and 1966.

The recipe I have written up has about 5% chocolate and just over 2% roasted barley. Too much? I know what flavors they're supposed to add from readings but being new to AG I'm not entirely sure what going crazy would be considered. I also don't know if this amount of contribution would actually add much flavor or just change the color. Any advice on this would be a nice addition to the knowledge I've already gained from this thread.

just as a light hearted wise crack...i saw another thread @sixhotdogneck started about using the term 'modern malt'... and i bet he'd be upset with how often your using the term....lol

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/modern-malts-what-changed.659987/

and before i started malting 6-row feed barley...i never touched 6-row, and i did some cost saving cracked corn recipes with no problems...

Woah now, I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, I'm just quoting the books I've been reading haha I am not, nor do I claim to be, an expert on the subject of grains. I will, however, adjust my vocabulary for future conversations lol

 

[bracconiere]

Woah now, I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, I'm just quoting the books I've been reading haha I am not, nor do I claim to be, and expert on the subject of grains. I will, however, adjust my vocabulary for future conversations lol

lol

 

[SEndorf]

I only use grains that have been stored in LED silos.....
Ya gotta go modern.....

 

[bracconiere]

I only use grains that have been stored in LED silos.....
Ya gotta go modern.....

View attachment 603433

Anti-microbial, UV LED silo's?

 

[Dland]

There is 6 row at morebeer. I use it sometimes making CAPs and other adjuncted concoctions I make up. Often will match corn in grist w 6 row, by weight(10-20% each), with the balance 2 row or pilsner. Been meaning to try some flaked rice I bought on a whim, so I'll use 6 row I have with that. Just another ingredient to experiment with, to keep amused.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/rahr-6row-malt.html

 

[SEndorf]

Anti-microbial, UV LED silo's?

Actually not a bad idea.
I'm sure most of the grain I buy has a fair percentage of mouse sh*t in it......

 

[BeerSavesLives]

Actually not a bad idea.
I'm sure most of the grain I buy has a fair percentage of mouse sh*t in it......

... is this a common thing? How can you be sure? That's terrifying lol

 

[SEndorf]

No mice in my brewery, but if I were a cat I'd want to live in a grain warehouse...
It all gets boiled in the end.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

6-Row has more protein so it is more prone to haze. Cut the 6-Row protein down with corn or rice and it is fine.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

20% flaked corn or flaked rice (or a combination of the two totaling to 20% of the grist by weight) should be enough to solve the haze problem.

 

[BeerSavesLives]

20% flaked corn or flaked rice (or a combination of the two totaling to 20% of the grist by weight) should be enough to solve the haze problem.

Adding this to my notes, thank you