55 gallons of hard cider

[justineaton]

I just got two 55 gallon food grade (used one time for candy making syrup) barrels and I am planning on filling one with cider and making hard cider in it. I have a few questions, I will just explain how I plan on doing this first and then list my questions.

I have already cleaned and sanitized my barrel but I will do it again right before I fill it, since I plan on Leaving it outside all winter I will put 40 gallons in it to leave room for expansion. When I freeze fresh cider I take five full gallons and one empty gallon and add enough from each to that all six have the same amount of cider, that is one fifth of each gallon removed to allow room for expansion and would equal 11 gallons out of 55 I am rounding up to 15. I plan on adding potassium metasulphate sugar and yeast to it as I put it in the barrel and then airlock it. When I am ready to drink it wether that's this year before it freezes our more likely next year after it thaw's out, is to open it up and siphon out 5 gallons at a time to either drink or put into a secondary fermenter and use for different recipes. Here are my questions

1. I know it is alright to let it freeze and then drink it when it thaw's out because that is what my cousins grandpa does, I don't really know him enough to seek him out with these questions but I bumped into him at the Apple press a few months ago and he told me that's what he does, sometimes he opens his barrel in the middle of winter and melts to the center with a hot poker to get at the un frozen very strong alcohol there. His is fully fermented by the time it freezes but mine probably won't be, will it start fermenting again after it thaw's out?

2. The largest batch I have made until now is five gallons and I try not to open it until I'm ready to bottle and drink it but with this I am going to have to open it up a few times, should I worry about it spoiling? I plan to remove five gallons at a time but that is still 8 times I will open it. It has a bung on it so I am not taking the entire lid off. Also after it is fermented how long will it last in the barrel outside? Should I try to have it gone before the hot summer months? It will be in the barn out of the direct Sun.

3. Should I add pectic enzyme to the barrel, to the secondary fermenter I siphon into our not worry about them? I hear freezing it will clear it up is that true?

I guess that's all for now, any tips tricks and advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[tooldudetool]

I am no expert in cider making, but I'm pretty experienced with beer brewing, and I do make cider from time to time. The biggest issue I see with your plan is not having any sort of temperature control for the first week. That is when the actual fermentation will be taking place. Depending on the yeast strain you will be using, you want to be in the mid 60's the entire time (cider temp, not ambient temp.. the temp will rise at least 5 degrees inside with that huge of a volume), without any big temperature swings. Lets say you pitch your huge amount of yeast during the middle of the day when its in the 60's. The yeast will happily replicate and prepare for fermentation, however, if the temp drops into the mid 40's overnight, you will effectively "crash cool" your cider, causing the yeast to drop out of suspension. Then the next day it will rise back up to the 60's and yeast activity will start again. The next night more yeast will drop out. Yeast do not like these types of temperature swings, and will most likely show it by producing off flavors, or not fully attenuating the cider due to them dropping out of suspension. After the first week you have much more flexibility as far as temperature. If there is some way you could keep your giant fermenter in the garage or someplace where there aren't such dramatic temp swings at least for the first week you will end up with a better end result. Also, keep in mind that keeping 40 gallons of cider on its yeast cake long term will probably wind up causing off flavors due to yeast autolysis (basically dead rotting yeast in your cider). A month is fine, but once you start going several months you will probably notice off flavors developing. Also, every time you open the fermenter post fermentation you will be introducing oxygen, with will lead to stale, oxidation flavors over the long term (wet cardboard/ sherry flavors). Another thing to consider as far as temp swings is that when that massive volume cools overnight, it will create a vacuum and suck whatever liquid is in your airlock back into the fermenter. Once it warms back up, it will push CO2 (or any oxygen it pulled in) back out, so be sure its not going to suck oxygen in at night and exhaust it during the day. As far as pectic enzyme, I don't see any reason not to add it to the primary, but long term storage will eventually clear the cider. BTW they used to make apple jack by keeping a barrel of cider outside over the winter and discarding the ice that forms on top (which is just water) day after day, effectively distilling the cider into a hard alcohol by removing just the water... pretty cool, huh! Anyway, I think your overall idea is awesome, but needs some tweaking... I'm curious to hear how it turns out.

 

[justineaton]

I wonder how all these farmers controls temp for the first week, probably start it at a time of year where the nights don't dip so much. The only way I see around that is doing it in five gallon batches in the basement where I normally make it and then transferring it to the barrel. I have 15 gallons ready to come out and be bottled or just put in plastic jugs right now and one more five gallon vessel available. If I do 20 gallons at a time do you think it would be alright to start half of it, wait a week and add the other half? As for the sediment creating off flavors, I bought two 55 gallon barrels so I could try to rake it at some point but I have no idea how I am going to do that yet.

 

[GrizzlyGremlin]

A 55 gallon drum will produce about 40 or 45 gallons of cider and a bunch of lees. I have made cider in uncontrolled temps and will work but much slower than a constant temp. Doing this however is exactly how cider was made in colonial new england. I will say that a cooler and slower fermented cider is far superior to a warm and faster fermented product. You have to wait 4-5 times as long but its worth it. I did 20 gallons 2 years ago in a shed. It took 6 months to get to 1.000 the temp got down to freezing and by the time the cider was fine it was crystal clear. Champaign yeast worked for me.

 

[justineaton]

I looked close at the barrels and see that the bung lid (not sure the technical name) has a punch out inside it with smaller threads for a spigot. I am going to try to get one and lay it on its side and the spigot should be above the lees. I should be able to get a five gallon bucket under it and transfer to my second barrel at least once. It will have a couple months before it freezes so I will wait a couple months after it thaw's out to try out, the plan is to stick it in my uncle's basement for the first week since he has a walk in basement, we will put it on a pallet and then use the forks on the skid loader to load it into the truck and out of the truck into my barn.

 

[justineaton]

Do you add sugars to yours? How about potassium metasulphate?

 

[GrizzlyGremlin]

Yep plenty of sugar. I added 8 lbs of sugar to 20 gallons. Ended up about 6.5%. No back sweetening or pasteurization. As far as chemicals, we keep it simple. Tablets and nothing else. Once before primary and once before bottling. I am still baffled at how fast it gets drank up. Cheap booze doesn't last. 55 gallons should last you a year.

 

[justineaton]

Thanks for the advise, I will post some pics when I get it started and later let you know how it turned out

 

[justineaton]

One more question for whoever wants to answer it, I planned on putting a hole in the cap that screws into one of the bungs to add an airlock. Now that I am planning on putting a spigot in one of the bungs that won't work. I will either have to put a spigot in the bung and lay the barrel on its side and then drill a hole for the airlock on top (the side of the barrel) or set it up right, put an airlock in the bung and drill a hole to add a spigot on the side of the barrel. Are there any benefits to doing it a certain way or don't it matter. Alternately I can set it up with an airlock in the bung and when it is done try to siphon from the top to get rid of the lees and then pour my cider into my second barrel and put the spigot in the bung and lay it on its side. Any thoughts?

 

[skadalajara]

Get a rotating racking arm and have it welded onto the side a few inches from the bottom.
Start your rack with the arm at 6:00 and slowly rotate it til you get clear cider then close the spigot. That's where you rack from.

 

[justineaton]

I had to look that up to see what it is and I don't think it will work with my plastic barrel, sure would be nice though. I did find raking canes that hook up to my auto siphon and should be plenty long enough so that is the plan for now until I can upgrade to a nice set up. We pressed apples today and ended up with only 30 gallons so that is what is going into it unless I can find time to pick more apples and make another trip to the press. My uncle is getting a crank press so I may be able to use that and fill it up. Since it will be hard to stay indoors and move outdoors after a week I am planning on just filling the barrel in the basement and leaving it there. It is mid 60's right now and will get a bit colder during winter but probably won't freeze. I also considered using those frozen juice concentrated that are good for back sweetening and just mixing them with a gallon of water as instructed and adding it to my barrel to fill it up. I don't really need to fill it, 30 gallons is a lot but I would like to get the cherry concentrate and make a cherry Apple cider. Maybe just 10 gallons to my 30 gallons of cider to get it back to the 40 gallons I wanted to do.

 

[justineaton]

I had to look that up to see what it is and I don't think it will work with my plastic barrel, sure would be nice though. I did find raking canes that hook up to my auto siphon and should be plenty long enough so that is the plan for now until I can upgrade to a nice set up. We pressed apples today and ended up with only 30 gallons so that is what is going into it unless I can find time to pick more apples and make another trip to the press. My uncle is getting a crank press so I may be able to use that and fill it up. Since it will be hard to stay indoors and move outdoors after a week I am planning on just filling the barrel in the basement and leaving it there. It is mid 60's right now and will get a bit colder during winter but probably won't freeze. I also considered using those frozen juice concentrated that are good for back sweetening and just mixing them with a gallon of water as instructed and adding it to my barrel to fill it up. I don't really need to fill it, 30 gallons is a lot but I would like to get the cherry concentrate and make a cherry Apple cider. Maybe just 10 gallons to my 30 gallons of cider to get it back to the 40 gallons I wanted to do.

 

[skadalajara]

I had to look that up to see what it is and I don't think it will work with my plastic barrel, sure would be nice though.

Oh, missed the part about it being plastic.
They make ones for plastic conicals, iirc. Might work.