50amp B2B System

[D-west]

Three-vessel 50L (13.2gal) keggle system on 1 5/8" slotted strut stand.

This system took me about 1 year to build, the panel taking the longest but I knew nothing about wiring and taught myself along the way.

The panel was very intimidating, but after learning more I quickly became more comfortable and decided to tackle the project without a kit. I did get some advice on wiring the switches from short circuit brew on youtube.

50amp panel built for back to back batches (I can run everything full power at the same time)
All of my parts were sourced from Amazon or local.

1.5" TC RIMS tube
5500W 220v SS TC elements in BK and HLT
1650W 120v SS TC element in RIMS

Brewed on it about 6 times so far, only changed a few things on the stand and went from my plate chiller to the Jaded Cyclone cleanable CFC.

If anyone has any questions on anything or any advice on my setup let me know.

 

[Gameface]

Looks great!

 

[jcav]

Excellent job! Let me know after a few more brews how you like that auto sparge arm. Lot's of luck brewing on your creation!

John

 

[AkTom]

I like it. Looks like what I would like to build someday....

 

[D-west]

Excellent job! Let me know after a few more brews how you like that auto sparge arm. Lot's of luck brewing on your creation!

John

I've been using that for years on my old gas system and the new electric, it works great.

 

[augiedoggy]

I dont mean to be critical but why such a long rims tube with such a short element? Have you experienced any limitations with that setup with the temp probe being so far from the element? my fear would be scorching is the flow slowed or stopped.

Nice build BTW looks very well built.

 

[D-west]

I dont mean to be critical but why such a long rims tube with such a short element? Have you experienced any limitations with that setup with the temp probe being so far from the element? my fear would be scorching is the flow slowed or stopped.

Nice build BTW looks very well built.

Anytime flow is stopped in a rims tube there is fear of scortchibg or boiling. That's why there should always be flow .

Pumps is always going while my rims tube element is on. The sight glass in the tube is my recent change so I can verify I have flow. The element comes just to the edge of the sight glass so it's just under half the length of the tube. My temp sensor is a 4" long TC probe. Element is 120v ULWD and never had any temp control issues. When mashing everything is open and flowing steady. I regularly check the recirculating temp with my calibrated digital thermometer and it matches My PID within .5 of a degree. The element hardly turns on for more than a second at any given time unless I'm ramping the temp up.

Good observation tho. I will keep an eye out for scorching.

 

[D-west]

Also since my setup is modular with TC fittings, if I had scortchibg issues I could just flip my last section of tube around and put the temp probe just after the sight glass and my output at the very end .

 

[D-west]

I dont mean to be critical but why such a long rims tube with such a short element? Have you experienced any limitations with that setup with the temp probe being so far from the element? my fear would be scorching is the flow slowed or stopped.

Nice build BTW looks very well built.

I've seen some of your posts in the past on your system, I'm curious what you have your PID for your rims set at? Initially I had scorching on my element with the 1.5" and 14" tube, 8" foldback element and 2" probe at the end. I changed my settings to update more frequently and found the element staying on less and changed some of the power outputs down to 70% and it eliminated that but obviously it brought my ramp up time for step mashing down. So I'm always tweaking it and looking for advice .

 

[augiedoggy]

I've seen some of your posts in the past on your system, I'm curious what you have your PID for your rims set at? Initially I had scorching on my element with the 1.5" and 14" tube, 8" foldback element and 2" probe at the end. I changed my settings to update more frequently and found the element staying on less and changed some of the power outputs down to 70% and it eliminated that but obviously it brought my ramp up time for step mashing down. So I'm always tweaking it and looking for advice .

well I use a longer 36" long 1800w element that has a very low surface watt density so scorching is not possible I just set my pid to desired temp and let it do its thing but Ive found to maintain temps it never goes over 21%.. I get about 2-2.5 degrees rise per minute from it when stepping. because its such a long element the wort has longer contact time with the gentler heat on each pass which makes it work well.

 

[D-west]

well I use a longer 36" long 1800w element that has a very low surface watt density so scorching is not possible I just set my pid to desired temp and let it do its thing but Ive found to maintain temps it never goes over 21%.. I get about 2-2.5 degrees rise per minute from it when stepping. because its such a long element the wort has longer contact time with the gentler heat on each pass which makes it work well.

How often does your PID read temp?

 

[augiedoggy]

How often does your PID read temp?

Im not sure I understand? It always reads the temp of the liquid in the rims..it refreshes every second I believe. The temp probe is about 1 inch from the end of the element. I do also use a flow switch that shuts the power off to the element if the flow stops.

 

[D-west]

auguedoggy, what is your control period for your PID set at? I am just curious how its set based on your setup, not asking for setting info for mine, just curious.

Mine is set at 1 second

So far, I've played with 3 different setups and these are my results.
Constants are 5 gallons water in my mash tun @ 148 F, recirculating at 1.4 gpm.
The only changes are in the RIMS tube configuration. After each change, the pump was run with the element off for 5min to warm everything up, then element turned on for 10min to ramp up and PID auto tuned.

Configuration 1: (as is in my avatar with the sight glass in the middle)
Sensor 10" from the element end, next to exit elbow
Results: Temp fluctuates between 146 and 150 with a 4-second delay between temp changes.

Configuration 2:
Sensor 1/2" away from the element end, in the middle of the tube
Sight glass on the bottom incoming port
Results: Temp fluctuates between 146 and 150 with a 1-second delay between temp changes.

Configuration 3:
Sensor 4" from the element end, next to the exit elbow
Sight glass on the bottom incoming port
Results: Temp fluctuates between 146 and 150 with a 2-second delay between temp changes.

 

[augiedoggy]

One second I believe. Your actual P,I,D values also impact this. I dont remember getting fluctuations like that with either of mine. It may go up or down a degree but thats about it although 2 degrees is insignificant as well and may be just due to unevenly heated liquid. Your not your not using the inkbird pids are you? a number of people have reported fluctuation temp readouts with them.

 

[Gameface]

I also wonder if you might benefit from taking an additional reading just after the drain valve on your mash tun. I'm guessing that would not fluctuate nearly as much, but obviously that's not where you want to control the RIMS from, it'd just be for additional info.

 

[D-west]

One second I believe. Your actual P,I,D values also impact this. I dont remember getting fluctuations like that with either of mine. It may go up or down a degree but thats about it although 2 degrees is insignificant as well and may be just due to unevenly heated liquid. Your not your not using the inkbird pids are you? a number of people have reported fluctuation temp readouts with them.

I am using the inkbird ITC-106 for my rims. I have been thinking about changing it out for an auber, I have the EZ boil for my boil kettle and love it, and it has a mash mode, but its wired to my 220v plug, and my rims is wired for 110. Did some more tweaking with the PID parameters and solved the 4 degree swing, got it down to 2 degrees. I set the control period to zero and then tuned it. Works like a charm now. Brewing a sweet stout tomorrow.

 

[D-west]

I also wonder if you might benefit from taking an additional reading just after the drain valve on your mash tun. I'm guessing that would not fluctuate nearly as much, but obviously that's not where you want to control the RIMS from, it'd just be for additional info.

I had the same thought but then realized, if I just turn off my rims element I will be measuring the same thing, just after running through the preheated pump and tubes.

PID set at 156 (jumping between 154 and 158)
Cut power to my rims element
The temp immediately drops to 154
I lose .1 degree every 6 seconds pump running fully open

I use a digital temp probe that I calibrate when I do a new starter (ice water bath) to check my mash tun water temp and then make sure that my PID is reading the same.

 

[augiedoggy]

I

I also wonder if you might benefit from taking an additional reading just after the drain valve on your mash tun. I'm guessing that would not fluctuate nearly as much, but obviously that's not where you want to control the RIMS from, it'd just be for additional info.

I do this actually.. to make sure everything is working correctly. on the graph in brucontrol you can see they start out multiple degrees out of sinc and then once everythings stabilized they are usually within a degree.
The graph came in very helpful when tuning the pid values as well. I discovered that the values on my homebrewing system and brewery system are not the same at all when optimized.

 

[augiedoggy]

I had the same thought but then realized, if I just turn off my rims element I will be measuring the same thing, just after running through the preheated pump and tubes.

PID set at 156 (jumping between 154 and 158)
Cut power to my rims element
The temp immediately drops to 154
I lose .1 degree every 6 seconds pump running fully open

I use a digital temp probe that I calibrate when I do a new starter (ice water bath) to check my mash tun water temp and then make sure that my PID is reading the same.

some of that could be noise from the element being on that makes the pid temp value jump around. There are a couple threads where people with the inkbird 106 pid have complained of this.

I imagine the grainbed is going to have an impact of some of your testing.. a dense grainbed may hold temps longer or certainly a deeper one.

 

[D-west]

I brewed a milk stout today, and with the combo of flaked oats and barley, I had a hell of a time maintaining temp through my rims.

I was mashing at 156 and it would overshoot to 160 so I set it at 154 and it would overshoot to 158.... My thermometer in my mash tun never went over 155 luckily.

I am ditching the inkbird and going with the auber SWA-2451. I have the auber DSPR 120 for my BK and love it.

Also going to try out a different false bottom, I currently have the domed bottom and have trouble with it moving around when I dough in with a thick mash.

 

[D-west]

Just an update. New Auber SWA-2451 PID installed.

SV @ 154 and it hovers between 154.8 and 154.2.

Inkbird PID's suck.