50/50 Munich/Wheat Hefe - Delicious!

[ghpeel]

So I really like Hefeweizens and Dunkelweizens. My Hefe's are usually made with Weyerman Pale and Wheat Malt in a 50/50 ratio, and I like the flavors of the White Labs 300 & 380 Hefe yeasts.

I was looking to make a Hefe that was maltier than my Pale Malt versions, which sometimes come out shockingly pale, so I decided to try adding some Munich malt to the grain bill. I could have done a decoction too, but I prefer simpler mash schedules. I'm a single-infusion type of guy.

At the last minute though, instead of just subbing out a pound or two of the Pale for Munich, I decided to replace the Pale malt with Munich entirely, so my grain will was 50% Wheat, and 50% Munich. I also used WLP 380 and fermented right around 64-65F.

And WOW, the results are great!! This beer tastes the most like a imported Hefe of any that I have made. I do still love my paler Hefe's, with Pale malt or Pils, but this combination is fantastic! Its got that malty, rich character of a good German Hefe, while still being pretty dry and very, very drinkable.

I often see recipes with base malts like Munich and Vienna added as if they were specialty grains, like .25-1lb worth. I'm not sure any human on the planet can really pick out .25lb of Munich in an entire 5gal batch. Don't be afraid to use these fantastic grains as your base malt!! I've got a Vienna + Munich lager in a diactyl rest right now, and that beer is one of the best that I brew.

Next time you are planning an Amber, or Scottish Ale, or Brown, think about using Munich instead of your normal base. Its got enough diastatic power to self convert entirely. Good stuff.

 

[teucer]

Yeah, if I want the maltiness of a Munich, Munich is all I want to use.

Hell, my biere de garde treats pils as a specialty grain and uses pale Munich as the base. (The only reason I used 20% pils is because it was inspired by - though not directly a clone of - Gavroche, which does so.)

 

[copyright1997]

Interesting. I wanted to brew yesterday, and didn't have a recipe in mind. I wanted to do a wheat, but also have been enjoying some batches I've done with Vienna. So I did a batch with:
5# Vienna
4# Wheat Malt
1# Flaked Wheat (For head retention)
1 oz Williamette @ 60
.3 oz Williamette @ 15 minutes
S-33 yeast (re-use from a prior batch)

Mashed @ 152.
SG 1.047, expected ABV = 5.1%. Doing primary fermentation @ 66-67 degrees.

It was a bit of a flyer, but after reading this thread I am more encouraged. I will post when done with my impressions. (It's busy fermenting as I type).

[I did a previous SMaSH with Vienna and Northern Brewer and it is quite tasty. ]

 

[ghpeel]

[I did a previous SMaSH with Vienna and Northern Brewer and it is quite tasty. ]

DeathBrewer' Vienna Northern Brewer SMASH by any chance? I've done that one myself. Delicious. It's where I learned that you CAN use something besides pale or pilsner malt as a base.

 

[copyright1997]

DeathBrewer' Vienna Northern Brewer SMASH by any chance? I've done that one myself. Delicious. It's where I learned that you CAN use something besides pale or pilsner malt as a base.

YEP. In fact, I just saw this post and I have one in my glass!

 

[Meshuggah]

I'm going to try my first hefe soon and am playing around with a few grain bills. I originally was thinking 50:50 wheat to pils, but now I'm considering 50:25:25 wheat, pils, munich. Do you think it would be pointless to go 25% with those two? Or should I go all out with 1 of them?

 

[teucer]

I'm going to try my first hefe soon and am playing around with a few grain bills. I originally was thinking 50:50 wheat to pils, but now I'm considering 50:25:25 wheat, pils, munich. Do you think it would be pointless to go 25% with those two? Or should I go all out with 1 of them?

Any blend of 50-75% wheat (get lots of rice hulls if you're going high), with the rest any blend of pils, vienna, or Munich, will get you good results. In the maltier versions, you probably want to use German hops, no additions past the half hour mark, and a German yeast.

 

[ghpeel]

I'm going to try my first hefe soon and am playing around with a few grain bills. I originally was thinking 50:50 wheat to pils, but now I'm considering 50:25:25 wheat, pils, munich. Do you think it would be pointless to go 25% with those two? Or should I go all out with 1 of them?

I've done all Pils, and now I've done all Munich. My next one will probably be 50/25/25 Wheat/Pils/Munich just to see what half-n-half Pils/Munich will do. However, ANY of the combo's you listed will be DELICIOUS if you like hefe's. The all-Pils version will be drier and lighter in color, whereas the Munich will be a touch breadier.

 

[KaSaBiS]

Ghpeel any word on the 50/25/25?

I am looking at my hefeweisen recipe from brewing classic styles and it is 50/50 wheat pils. (brewing next saturday)
I have tried edworts which is 66% wheat and 33% pils. but never really got what I was looking for.

I have Hofbrauhaus newport near by and their hefe is much breadier than the batches ive brewed. I am shooting for something near Hofbrauhaus hefe/wells banana bread beer and I think munich is just the fix.

Also I have never fermented hefe as low as JZ recommends 62*F.

if you havent tried this yet Ill report back with my success story as I will have my entire reception party drinking this as one of the kegs (smoked porter and apfelwein as the other two) I think ill have a happy crowd.

For my two "goal" hefes do you think i should jump straight into the 50/50 munich/wheat?

thanks all!

 

[ghpeel]

Well at the last minute I decided to keep the Pils out, so my next one on tap will still be 50/50 Munich/Wheat. However, I recently had a Hofbrau Hefe about 2 weeks ago, and I do believe the Munich/Wheat mix will get you in that area much better than the Pils. I can't really say WHY this is, but as you said, wheat + Pilsner just isn't giving us the bready character we want. I suspect traditional triple-decoctions turn that pale Pilsner into something richer in the final beer, but who has time for that crap?

Regarding your target, Hofbrau Hefe and Banana Bread Beer are two completely different beers, so you'll have to pick one to emulate at a time. The imported Hefe's mostly have very subtle banana character, if any. By eliminating the banana, my Hefe's have become much more like them than before. Banana Bread beer is like an Amber Ale with artificial banana flavor added, I'm not a huge fan but it's interesting, at least.

If you want something in between, then do a single infusion mash at about 152 and ferment WLP380 at about 64-65F. That yeast is a good balance of banana/clove at that temp. You can do any combo of Pils or Munich for the barley half of the grains, the Pils will be lighter in color and flavor, and the Munich will be breadier.

 

[ghpeel]

Oh one more thing in general, I wanted to kick up the 'clove' flavor and completely eliminate the 'banana' from this recipe, so on the advice of Arcanxor on this board, I did a "ferulic acid rest" for about 20min at 113F before my main Sachrification rest at 152F. This first rest increases the precursor for the clove flavor, which is some crazy chemical with an acronym of "4VG".

The results were outstanding. Full clove character with very minimal banana at all. Plus, the grains were the 50/50 Munich/Wheat mix described at the top of the page, so the final product was rich and clovey, but still very dry and very, very drinkable. This shall be my standard Hefe recipe for the time being.

 

[KaSaBiS]

so much of your description makes sense between the two beers, the HB hefe fluctuates but maybe im afixated on the banana thought that I imposed it on the HB but now that I think about it it tastes clove and has the aroma of banana more than a forefront of it. the wells banana 4 pack i just bought tastes like butt compared to the first one I had a year ago. may of been how it was handled but i can hardly drink it due to that artificial funk flavor it has to it.

I originally was going to ferment at 62°F with an appropriately sized step up starter from mr.malty calcs. then I got side tracked worrying about cutting my pitching rates to increase esters and ramping up the temps to around 66.

the first two batches Ive done were not temp controlled and I got a lot of off flavors, so I may just stick to my guns and ride the original plan out.

wlp300, with correct pitching temps, mash at 152. ferment at 62. I will go with 50% wheat, 40% pils, 10%munich.

If i do the acid rest, since I batch sparge in a cooler, the only way I could increase my temp is to perform decoction. lots of new variables which is a good and a bad thing. this beer, if it turns out well will be at my wedding reception aug 17th. I will report back then to report my findings.

Thanks for posting your experiences. a great Pay it forward community we have here

 

[ghpeel]

I think for mine, I just mashed real thick to hit the 113F acid rest, then added boiling water to hit normal mash temps after 20min or so. However, since the 113f acid rest only takes 15-20 min you COULD just put your grains in your kettle and hit 113F for a while, then turn the heat back on and raise it to 150F before pouring the whole mash into your cooler for the rest of the mash. If you don't feel like doing a decoction, those two ways are options.

 

[mcbethenstein]

Sorry to dig this up from the dead, but does anyone have any updates on how this is compared to a "standard" hefe? Does the munich change the yeast expression? did anyone do a side by side taste test with pilsner? Any other thoughts on the munich hefe?

 

[Beernik]

It's an interesting thought. I didn't make a hefe but I made a dampfbier that was 1/3 pils, 1/3 Vienna, and 1/3 Munich and used WLP 300.

It tastes like an estery, phenoly Oktoberfest. If doesn't have any of the creamy smoothness that wheat would give it.

I don't know that I would do 1/2 wheat and 1/2 Munich. If I were to do that, I'd go all in and make a dunkleweizen. I would consider 1/2 or 1/4 Vienna though because it has a lighter toast.

 

[RonPopeil]

Could do a weizenbock with 2parts wheat to 1 part munich to 1.070 OG