5 kegs of bad beer.

[rod734]

I'm having a flavor problem with the last kits I bought. I'v brewed several beers, extract, partial extract, and ag with good results.
I made a Porter with these kits that is decent, but all my pale ales are bad. I brewed 2 IPAs, an APA, and used the LME from a 5 gal. kit and added corn, and rice to make a ten gal. batch of C3C pale ale, and they all have a citrisy, grapefruit, estrigency, the C3C being the best.
The only thing I have changed in my process is the kits and the yeast. I'm using Nottingham yeast and fermenting at 60 degrees F. as was recommended on one of Yooper's posts.
Is it possable the LME is causing this problem? I guess I will brew another batch and split it up and try two different yeasts.

 

[edmanster]

What hops are you using? citrusy grapefruity are mostly american hop flavors....

 

[rod734]

What hops are you using? citrusy grapefruity are mostly american hop flavors....

The IPA 5 gal. had
1oz. Magnum-60 min.
1oz. Falconers Flight-15 min.
1 oz. Cascade-dryhop
It was so bitter I cut back on the hops on the second batch and skipped the dry hop

The APA 5 gal. had
1 oz. Horizon-60 min.
1 oz. Cascade-15 min.
1 oz. Liberty-5min.

On the C3C I used the Magnum and FF as with the IPA but for 10 gal and didn't dry hop.
These beers are not undrinkable just not enjoyable, because I drink a lot of beer. I'm only into brewing for about a year and don't have a brewhouse set up yet so I'm confined to partial boils in the kitchen or full biols in the garage with the door open. I built my 3 tap kegerator and bought 10 of these kits to try to get a pipeline started untill wether got nice enough to brew outside.
I was satisfied for 40 years drinking the cheap 24 and 30 packs but once I started trying the craft beers, IPAs, Porters, and Stouts I found myself buying more and more of it and at $10 or more a 6 it got pretty expensive.
I had been making a little wine for a while and had some equipment so I decided to try a Cooper's kit. I was hooked. I got some Mr. beer kits and continued to use some Cooper kits, and then ag and made some very good beer. Now I'm discouraged.
I'm 60 years old, retired, and finally going to college, studying bio-tech. so I understand a lot of the process, I just dont have the experienc with hops, yeasts, and other ingredients to figure out whats going on here.

Thanks to all

 

[TopherM]

Let em' sit for a month, and they'll be fine

 

[pjj2ba]

I suspect you are having hard water issues. Hard water is great for darker beers, not so much for lighter ones. I had astringency issues that went away went I started messing with my water to lower it's alkalinity. The astringency will fade with time.

 

[broadbill]

So you took a 5 gal kit and added ONLY corn and rice to make it 10 gal? You didn't add more malt?

Also, I looked at the C3C recipe and it looks like you way overhopped that one, based on what Magnum and FF Alpha Acids tend to run (10-12%). Did you really add 1oz of Magnum and 1oz of FF?

C3C does boil 2 oz of hops but they have half the AA level---Williamette and Crystal, but (4-5AA% typically).

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

It's possible the kits have old LME and/or hops, especially if you bought 10 kits and they have been sitting in your garage for a while waiting to be used.

Also, what's your water source? Municipal water? If so, are you treating it for chlorine/chloramine? My other suspicion is that you're getting some chlorine flavor coming through the beer. It's not always so obvious in darker beers but it will be in lighter beers.

 

[rod734]

So you took a 5 gal kit and added ONLY corn and rice to make it 10 gal? You didn't add more malt?

Also, I looked at the C3C recipe and it looks like you way overhopped that one, based on what Magnum and FF Alpha Acids tend to run (10-12%). Did you really add 1oz of Magnum and 1oz of FF?

C3C does boil 2 oz of hops but they have half the AA level---Williamette and Crystal, but (4-5AA% typically).

The IPA came with 8lb of xtra pale LME and a pound of crystal 40L I added 2 lbs of instant rice to the bag and done a mini mash. I also added 16oz of corn sugar and a 14oz bottle of corn syrup. I ran it trough beer calc. and I think it was about 30 IBU. I knew it wasn't per recipe but I still call it C3C because of the ingreients. It turned out the best of the pale ales, just has the grapefruit taste I dont like.

thanks

 

[rod734]

It's possible the kits have old LME and/or hops, especially if you bought 10 kits and they have been sitting in your garage for a while waiting to be used.

Also, what's your water source? Municipal water? If so, are you treating it for chlorine/chloramine? My other suspicion is that you're getting some chlorine flavor coming through the beer. It's not always so obvious in darker beers but it will be in lighter beers.

I bought 5 kits, a porter, a stout , an APA, and 2 IPAs and brewed them within a week of delivery, then I ordered 5 more IPAs and had them about 2 weeks, trying to figure this out before I brew the rest.
I'm using the same water I'v been useing in beer and wine for a year with no issues, and most of my beers have been IPAs, West Coast Pale Ale, and many other light colored beers. I even bewed a C3C ag per recipe that turned out fantastic. I really think it has to be in the LME, hops, or yeast, but like I said, I don't have enough experience with the flavors to figure it out.

thanks; Rod

 

[edmanster]

The IPA came with 8lb of xtra pale LME and a pound of crystal 40L I added 2 lbs of instant rice to the bag and done a mini mash. I also added 16oz of corn sugar and a 14oz bottle of corn syrup. I ran it trough beer calc. and I think it was about 30 IBU. I knew it wasn't per recipe but I still call it C3C because of the ingreients. It turned out the best of the pale ales, just has the grapefruit taste I dont like.

thanks

Did you use cascade as the bittering hop on the C3C?

 

[bovineblitz]

I suspect you are having hard water issues. Hard water is great for darker beers, not so much for lighter ones. I had astringency issues that went away went I started messing with my water to lower it's alkalinity. The astringency will fade with time.

I was thinking the same thing. I had this issue for a while too. I now cut half my water with distilled.

 

[rockfish42]

The IPA came with 8lb of xtra pale LME and a pound of crystal 40L I added 2 lbs of instant rice to the bag and done a mini mash.

Did you add any base malt to the mini-mash? The crystal malt won't convert the flaked rice.

 

[midfielder5]

The IPA & APA sound like Austin Homebrew Supply kits. I have those as well. They are just coming through my pipeline, but tasted fine when I took hydro samples, etc.

I would brew the kit as is, and treat your water. What do other homebrewers in your town do?
I have good, soft water, but it does not bother me to gather 6 gallons and leave it uncovered overnight to off-gas the chlorine & add 1/2 a campden tablet to remove chloramine. Just in case.

 

[rod734]

Did you use cascade as the bittering hop on the C3C?

No, I used the Newport at 60 min and the FF at 15 min and omitted the cascade.

 

[rod734]

Did you add any base malt to the mini-mash? The crystal malt won't convert the flaked rice.

I didn't add any base malt but I researched it on the forum and I thought instant rice was already converted, and too the I figured the LME would have the enzymes nessary to convert. This is a learning process for me and I apprecieat any advice.

thanks; Rod

 

[PVH]

used the LME from a 5 gal. kit and added corn, and rice to make a ten gal. batch of C3C pale ale.

Yeah, this is one of your problems. Adding enough rice and corn to a 5 gallon batch to make a 10 gallon batch would not be great even if you got conversion. Unconverted I am not surprised it tastes nasty.

 

[rod734]

The IPA & APA sound like Austin Homebrew Supply kits. I have those as well. They are just coming through my pipeline, but tasted fine when I took hydro samples, etc.

I would brew the kit as is, and treat your water. What do other homebrewers in your town do?
I have good, soft water, but it does not bother me to gather 6 gallons and leave it uncovered overnight to off-gas the chlorine & add 1/2 a campden tablet to remove chloramine. Just in case.

I'm the only brewer in the area. People are astonished when I tell them I make beer, most people ask if it's legal.
I brewed the first kit as instructed, but it turned out with a harsh hop tast. It wasn't overly bitter, but the hop flavor was intense and left you belching hop juice for and hour.
If it's my water I dont know why it's just now showing up.

 

[rod734]

Yeah, this is one of your problems. Adding enough rice and corn to a 5 gallon batch to make a 10 gallon batch would not be great even if you got conversion. Unconverted I am not surprised it tastes nasty.

The C3C is the best beer I'v made with these kits of all the ales.

 

[PVH]

The C3C is the best beer I'v made with these kits of all the ales.

Fair enough. Brewhatchalike.

 

[rockfish42]

I didn't add any base malt but I researched it on the forum and I thought instant rice was already converted, and too the I figured the LME would have the enzymes nessary to convert. This is a learning process for me and I apprecieat any advice.

thanks; Rod

The instant rice was pre-gelatinized IE the starches were made available for conversion, the LME is enzymatically inactive.

Do you have a water report for your area? High amounts of sulfate or bicarbonate can lead to harsh hop flavors.

 

[rod734]

The instant rice was pre-gelatinized IE the starches were made available for conversion, the LME is enzymatically inactive.

Do you have a water report for your area? High amounts of sulfate or bicarbonate can lead to harsh hop flavors.

I havn't gotten a a water report, but I will. I have a tds tester from when I dabbled in hydroponics. I remember my city water tested quite high compared to my well water, but my well water has a sulfer smell. If I remember correctly my city water tested around 270 ppm If that helps any.
The fg on this beer was .010 and it does not have a sweet taste. Would this be possable if the rice didn't ferment?

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

Hard water can add a certain bitter aftertaste, but not generally citrus as described (at least in my experience). However, the effects of hard water are much more noticeable in lighter beers.

 

[Ravenshead]

I'm going to ask the dumb question. Do you like american style IPA's? Most of them have a strong grapefuit flavor to them that comes mostly from the Cascade. It may just be that you don't like the style. Have you had commercial versions?

 

[rod734]

I'm going to ask the dumb question. Do you like american style IPA's? Most of them have a strong grapefuit flavor to them that comes mostly from the Cascade. It may just be that you don't like the style. Have you had commercial versions?

I'm not very experienced on the beer styles, but when I started sampleing the crafta beers and imports I liked the IPAs. A friend took me to a brew pub near the IU campus in Bloomington IN and they served IPAs, they had one 40 sum IBUs and one in the 70s and I liked them. I thought the one in the 70s was a little too bitter but still good. When I first started brewing it was mostly IPAs and West Coast Pale Ales prehopped kits from Coopers and Mr. beer so I dont know what kind of hops they used, but I was drinking them faster than I could make and bottle them. Thats why I decided to start kegging and wanted to get a pipeline going, because I drink a lot of beer and the BMC beer they serve at American Leagon just didn't taste so good anymore.
The second IPA I brewed from these kits, I didn't even use the cascades that came with it for dryhopping, and it still has that flavor.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Are you squeezing a grain bag to get extra out?

Forrest

 

[rockfish42]

I havn't gotten a a water report, but I will. I have a tds tester from when I dabbled in hydroponics. I remember my city water tested quite high compared to my well water, but my well water has a sulfer smell. If I remember correctly my city water tested around 270 ppm If that helps any.
The fg on this beer was .010 and it does not have a sweet taste. Would this be possable if the rice didn't ferment?

With the increase in recipe volume and that much simple sugar the gravity sounds about right. Is there any excessive haziness to the beer?

 

[rod734]

Are you squeezing a grain bag to get extra out?

Forrest

No I just set it in a cullender and let it drain.

 

[rod734]

With the increase in recipe volume and that much simple sugar the gravity sounds about right. Is there any excessive haziness to the beer?

It's a litty hazy, but no more than the other pale ales. I just taped them and havn't pulled much from the keg yet. They'r really pretty young yet, I done 3 weeks in primary, and let them set 2 wks in the keg at room temp before chilling. I primed the kegs so I would have a head start on the carbing, so I starting tasting them right away to track their progress.

 

[edmanster]

No, I used the Newport at 60 min and the FF at 15 min and omitted the cascade.

Here is the description for the falconer flight

"Usage:*Dual (great bittering qualities and fantastic aroma profile)*
Description: Tropical Fruit, Citrus, floral, lemon and Grapefruit character (the best of the best)
Typical Beer Styles: American pale, amber, American IPA, IBA, Black IPA etc. (pretty much anything you want awesome hop character in)"


I would stay away from late hop additions with this hop blend if you don't like grapefruit!!

 

[rod734]

Here is the description for the falconer flight

"Usage:*Dual (great bittering qualities and fantastic aroma profile)*
Description: Tropical Fruit, Citrus, floral, lemon and Grapefruit character (the best of the best)
Typical Beer Styles: American pale, amber, American IPA, IBA, Black IPA etc. (pretty much anything you want awesome hop character in)"


I would stay away from late hop additions with this hop blend if you don't like grapefruit!!

Thanks for the description, thats probably where it's comming from.
I'm going to brew another batch soon, Im thinking about using columbus hops. I ran it through beer calc. with 1.25oz. at 6o min and it came up 43 IBUs. How do you think that will be, since I dont like the grapefriut?
I must say though this seems to be mellowing out. I pulled a glass just now and drinking it and it tastes much better. It's still a little citrisy but better. It's 3 weeks now in the keg and a week in the frig. This is the one I used the oz of newport at 60 and the FF at 15 and skipped the dry hop.
I also picked up a pk of SO-5 yeast today. Do you think I shoul try the SO-5 or stick with the Nottingham?

thanks