5 gal BIAB batch in 15 gallon electric Sankey keggle

[badmajon]

I'm thinking of converting my 15 gallon sankey keggle into an electric BIAB system. I'm not sure if this belongs in the electric or BIAB forum.

It requires me to install a false bottom with about 3" legs to keep the grain bag off the element. However, I was wondering, can I mash 5 gallons with this?

My concern is that there would only be a few inches of liquid above the false bottom for the grain to soak in when doing 5 gallon batches. The effective mash density would be very high. On the other hand, the wort would be constantly recirculating.

Any ideas?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Why do you think you need a false bottom?

Do you intend to recirc with a pump and control heat with a pid?

I think you could BIAB w a keggle 5 gallons without a FB, with wrapping the keg during the mash with insulation / or a blanket?

The bag and grain will not sit heavy on the element but rather conform around it.

Really no need to fire the element during the mash...sorry don't understand the concern?

Oops sorry edit...I see you intend to pump recirc....perhaps just some sort of shield On or over the element?

I recall reading of a guy that runs an ULWD element right on the bag without a FB but was surprised to hear that works???




Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[RM-MN]

Bring your water to strike temperature, mill your grains fine because you can with BIAB. Turn off the burner, turn off the pump, drop in the bag and stir in the grains. Wait for conversion, about 10 minutes, pull the bag and squeeze out the liquid. That's it, turn on the burner to bring the wort to a boil.

 

[badmajon]

Hi sorry I should have elaborated a bit, I am going to do a PID controlled recirc. I figured the element would burn a hole in the bag as the element will be turning on and off during the mash. It won't?

 

[RM-MN]

If you feel the need to do the PID controlled recirculation you need to keep the bag off the element as direct contact will burn a hole. My point was that if your grains are milled fine, the time for conversion will be so short that the temperature drop will be so little that adding heat will be pointless. With my system I've found that conversion only takes about 3 minutes. I continue to mash for 10 minutes just to be sure that the beta amylase has time to complete. That's all.

 

[badmajon]

10 minute mash, holy crap, I could be done brewing in less than a couple of hours!

 

[RM-MN]

10 minute mash, holy crap, I could be done brewing in less than a couple of hours!

The last batch I did took me 2 hours, ten minutes from starting to bring equipment up from the basement to having it all cleaned and put away except for the items that I washed and weren't quite dry yet. That included weighing and milling the grain. With a bigger heating unit I suspect that 2 hours would be possible. I did a no-chill so I didn't have to wait for the wort to cool, dumped the boiling hot liquid into the fermenter bucket and pitched when it cooled.

That kind of shoots a hole in the PID controller. I'm sorry.

 

[badmajon]

I'm astounded... is a 10 minute mash something all BIABers get or do you do something special? Also, if the temp does drop down too far, could you just fire it up and raise it for a bit or what?

 

[RM-MN]

I'm astounded... is a 10 minute mash something all BIABers get or do you do something special? Also, if the temp does drop down too far, could you just fire it up and raise it for a bit or what?

Very few do a 10 minute mash because we've all been brought up on the necessity of a 60 minute mash. Once I heard about a 20 minute mash someone did, it piqued my interest and I had to try some things. The first was a 20 minute mash and behold, I got full conversion as evidenced by hitting the predicted OG. Then I got my hands on some iodine to test for conversion with the idea that I would test at dough in and again every 5 minutes until the iodine quit changing color. On the first sample I missed my 5 minute timing and tested at 7 minutes with no color change in the iodine. That led me to try again and this time I would be more careful about the time and sample every minute from dough in until the iodine quit changing color. By 3 minutes it was done. Being a bit sceptical, I let the mash sit until 10 minutes had gone by just in case and hit the projected OG again.

With only 10 minutes and using nearly the full volume of water there will be little temperature drop unless you are brewing where it is very cold. Even then, if your conversion is done in 3 minutes, that temperature drop would be moot. Please note that you can only be assured of full conversion so fast if your grains are milled very fine. Larger particles take longer to wet through and until that happens, conversion doesn't.

 

[badmajon]

Dude... this is amazing. I am going to try it. I bought myself a grain mill a couple of months ago and I bought a brewing bag online. I was going to spend hundreds on an electric setup but if I can do what you do, there's no need.

 

[KPSquared]

WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN SHOUTED FROM THE ROOF TOPS?????

This could revolutioninze brewing for me. Time is the biggest killer and shaving 50 minutes out of my mash time would...well... WOW!!!!

 

[RM-MN]

WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN SHOUTED FROM THE ROOF TOPS?????

This could revolutioninze brewing for me. Time is the biggest killer and shaving 50 minutes out of my mash time would...well... WOW!!!!

Because you have to have the grains milled very fine to get conversion that quickly and you may not get the fermentability you want as it takes more time for the beta amylase to break down the dextrines to simple sugars. I suggest you give it a try but you might want to start with a 20 minute mash or maybe even a 30. If you have a refractometer, use it to determine when the sugar content stops rising as a gauge.

 

[doug293cz]

Because you have to have the grains milled very fine to get conversion that quickly and you may not get the fermentability you want as it takes more time for the beta amylase to break down the dextrines to simple sugars. I suggest you give it a try but you might want to start with a 20 minute mash or maybe even a 30. If you have a refractometer, use it to determine when the sugar content stops rising as a gauge.

RM-MN,

What do you use as a crusher gap setting? I'm currently at 0.016" for BIAB with voile bag. Should I go finer? I'm not worried about cloudy wort or tannin extraction.

Brew on

 

[RM-MN]

I use a Corona style mill and there is no gap setting because there is no gap. I tighten it up until the plates rub. With your crusher you may be limited in that too tight and the crusher may not feed the grains through. I've heard of one member here doing a double crush with the second crush at .010". Tannin extraction is a non issue. Your pH controls if you extract tannins and temperature must be high too. Cloudy wort does not equal cloudy beer. Too many brewers stress over how cloudy their wort is and unless it is cloudy from starches it clears up nicely in the keg or bottle.

 

[doug293cz]

I use a Corona style mill and there is no gap setting because there is no gap. I tighten it up until the plates rub. With your crusher you may be limited in that too tight and the crusher may not feed the grains through. I've heard of one member here doing a double crush with the second crush at .010". Tannin extraction is a non issue. Your pH controls if you extract tannins and temperature must be high too. Cloudy wort does not equal cloudy beer. Too many brewers stress over how cloudy their wort is and unless it is cloudy from starches it clears up nicely in the keg or bottle.

I don't really want to double crush, especially with a gap change in between. I guess I'll just have to determine the minimum gap at which my mill will function.

Brew on