3 vessel system

[ninkwood]

Yeah, that's actually why I keep yammering on about a RIMS; 120V is plently of power to maintain and incrementally step up the small volume passing through the tube, but a lot harder to do with the much larger volume in a HERMS/HLT.... I'm just rrying to weigh in heavily on the RIMS vs. HERMS for your situation.

I don't doubt your correct, but the logic doesn't add up to me.

I understand that the element in a RIMS system we're thinking of (similar to the Blichmann Rims Rocket) has a relatively small amount of wort to heat up and therefore can make large changes to that volume relatively quickly. What I don't understand is how that would translate over to the whole volume of liquid faster than a HERMS.

In my particular plan, let's say I'm mashing 6-7 gallons of wort (not including the grain mind you). If I have to heat that much volume with a RIMS, wouldn't it be slower than if I had a very concentrated HERMS coil (cramp as much coil as possible) in a 5 to 7.5 gallon kettle? I may only be able to fit a few gallons of water in the "HLT" if you can call it that, but my thought was that it would actually be more efficient than RIMS atleast at these volumes? Since I'd only be using this water for reheating and possibly a small sparge, I don't think I'd need more than say 3 gallons in the HERMS HLT.

Is HERMS just significantly less efficient at transferring heat?

Thanks! And boy, we sure have confiscated this thread. OP should report me to the police!

 

[ninkwood]

Hmm... I definitely made one obvious error in logic here. The amount of water in the HLT isn't what's important. The target measure is still the mash temp. And to heat it using HLT sparge water means you're actually heating more water and will require more energy to match the same ramp up time as you'd get with RIMS. I think I get it now!

 

[Bobby_M]

I can build you an eBIAB kettle with dual 120v elements for 3300 total watts.

 

[Broken Crow]

My Apologies. I've been applying the logic that since you have gas and only 120V available; Stick with gas and don't bother with the expense of adding a relatively insignificant 120V element and the associated gas/electric balancing act to the HLT, but since 120V is perfectly adequate for a RIMS....well... I think I'm falling into the "My Way, is THE Way" area that I detest seeing and try not to do myself. There are almost as many ways to brew as there are brewers, and most of them work to the brewers satisfaction. @Bobby_M just made a very sobering post...... There is an undercurrent mythology that a 3V system is needed to give the brewer Total Control over every minute parameter of every element in the process. That is simply untrue...if it were, then by now someone would have contrived a top-drawing mashtun for better heat recirculation through the grain. A competent brewer can control pretty much everything with a single vessel, just use the search function for "BIAB" and click the 'by user' and type in 'Bobby-M' and you'll see he has covered pretty much every base. I think my own motivations have made me express my choices more strongly than appropriate, and I truly doubt we have the same motivtions for a 3V system...Mine is actually down to my brain-injury. I used to repair/build/design almost anything since I was a kid, but I lost that to injury. The building of the equipment itself according to my own design is part of my 'guided neuroplasticity'...that is; relearning skills I used to possess by doing them in order to stimulate axonal-regrowth and recovery of those parts of my brain where connections have been physically severed. This site is the whole of my social-media so I read it constantly and I know damn well from very sound scientific, and trustworthy empirical arguments that a properly equipped BIAB system can do everything I need from a brewing rig. (mind you; I would still include my RIMS in a BIAB ) So; If you're going to the trouble and expense of building a 3V setup, I hope it's just because it's what you want to do for your own reasons rather than because voices that include mine advocate it as 'The Way'.

 

[redrocker652002]

My Apologies. I've been applying the logic that since you have gas and only 120V available; Stick with gas and don't bother with the expense of adding a relatively insignificant 120V element and the associated gas/electric balancing act to the HLT, but since 120V is perfectly adequate for a RIMS....well... I think I'm falling into the "My Way, is THE Way" area that I detest seeing and try not to do myself. There are almost as many ways to brew as there are brewers, and most of them work to the brewers satisfaction. @Bobby_M just made a very sobering post...... There is an undercurrent mythology that a 3V system is needed to give the brewer Total Control over every minute parameter of every element in the process. That is simply untrue...if it were, then by now someone would have contrived a top-drawing mashtun for better heat recirculation through the grain. A competent brewer can control pretty much everything with a single vessel, just use the search function for "BIAB" and click the 'by user' and type in 'Bobby-M' and you'll see he has covered pretty much every base. I think my own motivations have made me express my choices more strongly than appropriate, and I truly doubt we have the same motivtions for a 3V system...Mine is actually down to my brain-injury. I used to repair/build/design almost anything since I was a kid, but I lost that to injury. The building of the equipment itself according to my own design is part of my 'guided neuroplasticity'...that is; relearning skills I used to possess by doing them in order to stimulate axonal-regrowth and recovery of those parts of my brain where connections have been physically severed. This site is the whole of my social-media so I read it constantly and I know damn well from very sound scientific, and trustworthy empirical arguments that a properly equipped BIAB system can do everything I need from a brewing rig. (mind you; I would still include my RIMS in a BIAB ) So; If you're going to the trouble and expense of building a 3V setup, I hope it's just because it's what you want to do for your own reasons rather than because voices that include mine advocate it as 'The Way'.

All good man, I appreciate yours and everybody else's input. The reason for my initial post was simple, I was looking at all the stuff I have in my "shop" and thinking, the weather is crummy and my wife is approved all things beer making, so why not. LOL. I take all the input in and really dig all the conversation. The electric element into keggle was very interesting and while I have a 220v plug for my wife's old ceramic kiln that has gone with the wind, it could possibly be used for a beer setup. I honestly have two boxes of stuff that I have yet to go thru, including manifolds, faucets, tons of copper pipe and connections and more stuff that I probably haven't even listed as I just don't know. I have this really cool recirc setup and even includes a chiller ( cannot remember what it is called, but it has the water pipe and the wort pipe all as one). I mean this is serious DIY heaven. So, any input or ideas or even just a thought is so important to me as I try and take it all in and appreciate you and others taking the time to help a true novice figure all this out. So, what I am trying to say is, ROCK ON!!!!!!!! Keep those posts coming as I totally dig that my stupid question has spurred such a great conversation.

 

[redrocker652002]

My initial reason for posting is simple. I remembered I have two of the needed 3 vessels in my shop and thought why not see what I can do. I enjoy my BIAB setup and for 5 gallon batches it is perfect. I added a cooler sparge setup and that seems to have helped. I might try a full batch brew next time just for the heck of it, but we will see. But, for me, I enjoy learning new ways and different ways of doing what gets done in this hobby. Freezing a yeast bank is on the list, and just learning how everyone does what they do is so interesting to me. I ask stupid questions, but that is how I learn. So, with that said, I appreciate everyone's input not only on this thread but on them all I don't think I would have tried a lager without the input of you folks to help me figure it out. So, ROCK ON!!!!!!!