3-in-1 "Boil Kettle, Jacketed Chiller, Conical Fermenter" by Brewha

[xico]

So…
1. Are you adding grain to make up for not sparging (compared to a traditional 10g batch)?
2. How much trub do you dump before pitching your yeast?
3. How much trub are you dumping before racking to kegs?
4. Does anybody chill the beer to 40F (the lowest setting on Nathan’s chiller) for a few days to clear beer before racking?

Cheers!

All great input, I'm curious to see what other more experienced folk will come back with. I brewed my 61st batch with the BIAC since my sweetheart and I got the system last October. Though I am still learning the process, I think I have enough behind my opinions to share them.

1. I stopped no sparging and do a small one compared to conventional 3 vessel rigs. ~3-5 gallons depending on style and batch volume. My efficiency jumped from low 60s to consistently 72-73% I then invested in a pH meter and water sample test to dial in my salt and acid additions to the mash and sparge water and now I'm hitting 78-81% efficiency consistently.

2. I use my cylinder as a guage when to dump my trub before pitching. I take a gravity reading from the line I set up (I cool while recirculating the dump and racking valves) when I'm at pitching temp. The hydrometer cylinder will show you the profile of your trub in solution. When the stuff settled out looks clear enough to me, I dump.

There are a number of additional items I have added to the process. I bought a sight glass that I use to know when to stop dumping. It usually comes out to being about .5 gallons. I use hop bags in a steel basket and I skim the hot break off and have noticed a reduction in matter that needs removal.

As far as the other questions, I have taken to making ~17 gallon batches, I cool the temp as low as possible with tap water for 24 hours (I dont' have a chiller so I use a 14 gallon fermenter in my chamber as a bright). Recently, I just pull from the racking port without dumping and aside from the pint worth of undesirables that exists first, I lose less than the bottom port.

 

[xico]

And I have a question for the community on haze. I have had a lot of problems with haze in many of my beers. How long do people recirculate their wort after the colander is lifted? I've narrowed down the problem to grain bed disturbance or ion deficiency. I know calcium in mash water is instrumental in dropping oxalates out of solution from malt and chloride ions aid in beer clarity. My numbers are accurate according to my water test. My beer after the mash is crystal clear, and when the colander is lifted out to drain I have a mess that doesn't seem to clarify very easily.

I bought a steel pot to use as a grant as a means to maintaining a consistent grain bed throughout the sparge. Anyone else doing this?

Also, who is sparging from the water jacket? How do I clean it out properly? There are flecks of carbon from the manufacturing process and I'd love to clean it out before I put my brew water in it. Sodium Hydroxide? Phosphoric Acid? I don't know what the material is made of.

 

[limulus]

The 24 by 24 sink was a huge help in making clean up easier.

I have a commercial rise sprayer and regular faucet.

The pot filler nozzle is hooked to the sediment and carbon block filter and four way manifold.

I always get a little flutter when I see a sink like that. It is the one thing I don't have and have always wanted. Since I brew in the garage, I'll never have one unless I move...and that is not too far out in the future.

 

[limulus]

Hello Guys,
I few months back, maybe many months back, someone posted a site with the components to put together a longer cord for their BIAC. I thought I saved the site, but now I can't find it and I've tried to locate it by reading through this thread again. Does anyone recall who posted that? I'm sure I can find the parts about anywhere, but for some reason the site he posted seemed to make it easy to get everything I needed including a nice flexible cord.

 

[Cmason]

I was lucky in that the washer and dryer are in the garage. That gives me access to 220 power, water, and a drain.
I added rubber matting to the outside of the bowl to deaden the sound when clanking around the sink.

 

[jsmoon888]

I called Nathan about a longer cord and he sent me to customavrack.com and they add me a nice 40' extension cord. I think it was $89

 

[limulus]

Thanks! I keep my system in a corner and that is where I installed my outlet. But, it is nice to roll it out into the center of the garage during the brew and the cord was not long enough.

 

[limulus]

jsmoon888, does this look similar to what you bought? I did not see anything in a 40ft length and 25 is really all I need.
http://customavrack.com/products/1030-nema-l6-30-extension-cords.aspx

 

[hgearle]

Had a great brew day today for my 4th batch on the BIAC. The system just works well and it just seems to get easier with each time I brew with it.

I was quite disappointed with my OG that came in at 1.061 versus a 1.075 estimated. I had actually dialed down my efficiency to 63% in Beersmith and upped the grain bill by 20% to make up for what I thought was …the way the system is (ie, me doing a no sparge batch). However, when my OG came in so low today (as it has been now for my first 4 brews), I decided to take a close look at my discarded grain to see if there were any clues. And behold there was. There was a lot of unprocessed malt left in the spent grains and some grain husks that were not even crushed. I did check the milled grain and thought it was good, but it is obviously not.
My grain mill is a 3 roller Monster Mill with a 50mm setting. I think I am going to dial it down to 37mm and mill it twice to see if it helps. I have a double bottom in my mash tun as Limulus had previously suggested and I haven’t had any problems with a stuck sparge.

As a side note…Some people were asking in the past how big a grain bill you can do on the medium BIAC. I have now done a Pliny the Elder and todays DIPA (which turned out to be an IPA ). I used 18.5 gallons of water and 33 pounds of grain and the level of the mash was 1.5 inches below the top of the kettle.

 

[limulus]

Hey Guys,
Nathan has a new video brewing on his new 5bbl system
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilHCgSnQXII[/ame]

 

[mrsweet2u]

Do you mean a chill haze?

Question was for xico

 

[Cmason]

Has anyone tried a single decoction mash with the 3 in 1? If so can you share your process?

 

[hgearle]

That is one reason I went with the top port route. It allows me to recirc from the racking port through the top and the trub will settle in the bottom and can be dropped out. Another option is a hop filter such as this:

https://www.brewershardware.com/FILTER1-Testing.html

b1v1r (and others who have done this)
Can you please post a pic of how you have your whirlpool hardware setup on your BIAC. Do you have it running through the lid port, or is it attached some other way? I would like to get hardware to do whirlpooling for flameout, 170F cooling hopstand, and to make chilling faster to 68F. Thanks.

 

[wholegraineggos]

I'm on the verge of ordering a medium 3-in-1 based on the comments here, but I have some questions first. Apologies if these have already been covered, I searched the thread and didn't find anything.

1. Has anyone used an alternative temperature controller? I've got a spare ITC-1000 which I'd like to use. I haven't found any reason why this wouldn't work, since it seems it's only controlling a relay inside the 240V power box. Any thoughts?

2. Whatever temperature controller you use, the heating element is controlled via hysteresis, correct? Does this make any appreciable difference compared to PID control, assuming the mash is continually recirculated?

3. Is the wedge wire mash colander a worthy upgrade?

Thanks in advance.

 

[cuda6pak]

I can't comment on the first two, but as far as the wire colander personally I would see it as worth the upgrade.

I usually get 65-70% and have messed with crush setting, flow recirc, and rice hulls and haven't quite hit the sweet spot of efficiency yet. Occasionally I will get a very slow draining mash and it makes for a long brew day when it takes forever to drain. It would also be nice to recirc a bit faster than I currently do. I just got a hose float so I'll try that out on my next brew and see how it does.

Having said that I don't have the experience of using the wire, but as I understand it, it is less likely to clog/flows better, etc.

 

[JB_Brewing2]

I'm on the verge of ordering a medium 3-in-1 based on the comments here, but I have some questions first. Apologies if these have already been covered, I searched the thread and didn't find anything.

1. Has anyone used an alternative temperature controller? I've got a spare ITC-1000 which I'd like to use. I haven't found any reason why this wouldn't work, since it seems it's only controlling a relay inside the 240V power box. Any thoughts?

Haven't used anything other than the Auberins unit with which my medium BIAC was originally supplied. I have an ITC-1000 hooked up to a freezer for fermentation control but Idon't know if it would work otherwise. Maybe some one with more electrical knowledge could assist on that questions.

2. Whatever temperature controller you use, the heating element is controlled via hysteresis, correct? Does this make any appreciable difference compared to PID control, assuming the mash is continually recirculated?

Correct, hysteresis is the controlling method. I haven't experienced any significant overshooting or undershooting using the Auberins controller although I'm sure some does occur, just not significant for me.

3. Is the wedge wire mash colander a worthy upgrade?

Unlike some have reported, I have had no issues with the standard colander. I'm careful with my crush and have yet to have a stuck sparge.


Thanks in advance.

I've had no regrets with the system and as I have said in the past, my brews are significantly improved.

 

[wholegraineggos]

I can't comment on the first two ...

How about this, if you're using their temperature controller, do you have any issues keeping the mash temperature constant? Appreciate the comments on the mash colander, btw.

I've had no regrets with the system and as I have said in the past, my brews are significantly improved.

Thanks.

I'm sorely tempted to build my own temperature controller box with a BCS-460 or something. That way I'd get PID control of the heating element, and also be able to control the chiller valves and pumps all with the same unit, plus get temperature logging... but then the whole point of this system is its simplicity. Decisions, decisions.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[jsmoon888]

I was tempted to use my old controller and a couple other parts to save a few bucks and Nathan said it would be fine. In the end I just went with everything new from Nathan at Brewha and it works great. Yes the efficiency is lower than my old system but I am dialing the recipes to compensate. I appreciate all the saved labor and lifting over my old system which will allow me to keep brewing during my senior years.

 

[cuda6pak]

How about this, if you're using their temperature controller, do you have any issues keeping the mash temperature constant? Appreciate the comments on the mash colander, btw.

Thanks.

I have the older Ranco style controller they used to supply with the kits. Absolutely zero issues with it. My first couple brews I measured with my Thermapen to get an idea of any difference. As others said, it's negligible. The key when mashing is to find the sweet spot of recirculation and heating element %. A good point to start is 25-30% when you start mashing, this will keep you from overshooting your temp target.

 

[mdime]

How about this, if you're using their temperature controller, do you have any issues keeping the mash temperature constant?

I have a Brew-Boss controller. It isn't perfect but I appreciate the ability to pre-program the entire brewing session so I don't have to babysit things as much. Unfortunately, it doesn't do fermentation control so after brewing I switch to the Auber ETC that Nathan sells.

 

[wholegraineggos]

Thanks for the info, everyone. I've decided to go with a DIY panel for more flexibility with temp control/logging, and easy expansion later on if I decide to add more fermenters (!) Parts actually came out cheaper than the power box + ETC option, so that's a plus.

I appreciate all the saved labor and lifting over my old system which will allow me to keep brewing during my senior years.

Glad to hear that. This is one of my primary reasons for splurging on this system.

Now I've got a silly general question for those of you with chiller (glycol or otherwise) setups. Do you leave the chiller pump running all the time, or do you have it turn on when the temp control valve is triggered?

 

[hgearle]

Now I've got a silly general question for those of you with chiller (glycol or otherwise) setups. Do you leave the chiller pump running all the time, or do you have it turn on when the temp control valve is triggered?

The chiller provided by Nathan with the BIAC will hold any temperature down to 40F which is the coldest setting available. The chiller is controlled by the temperature controller and holds the desired fermentation temperature within one degree. The chiller only runs when the brew temperature rises and the controller kicks on energizing the chiller. Gotta say that it works great!

The Pliny I'm fermenting now is at 65F and holding steady. I will raise the temperature as fermentation slows. Once it is done fermenting, I will turn the chiller to its lowest setting, 40F, and cold crash the beer for a few days. I will then add gelatin to fine and let it work for a few more days before transferring to kegs to dry hop.

As an aside....When I initially chilled the wort from boiling with tap water, I used hot water to cool the beer so I could whirlpool from 180F and lower. I shut off the water to the jacket at 185F and the wort stabilized at 180F. I whirlpooled in the last 7 ounces of hops, and used a sterilized spoon to stir the wort every 5 minutes for 40 minutes. The temperature slowly dropped to 168F. I turned on the cold water now and chilled to 80F before hooking the BIAC to the chiller to finish cooling to yeast pitching temperature. (I am still trying to determine the best setup to whirlpool with the pump).

 

[cuda6pak]

Now I've got a silly general question for those of you with chiller (glycol or otherwise) setups. Do you leave the chiller pump running all the time, or do you have it turn on when the temp control valve is triggered?

I use a TK-2000 Aquarium chiller for fermentation and use an EHEIM Compact+ pump to circulate the water from an igloo cooler to the jacket and back. When I'm fermenting I run the pump 24/7.

 

[wholegraineggos]

The chiller provided by Nathan with the BIAC will hold any temperature down to 40F which is the coldest setting available. The chiller is controlled by the temperature controller and holds the desired fermentation temperature within one degree. The chiller only runs when the brew temperature rises and the controller kicks on energizing the chiller. Gotta say that it works great!

Awesome, so you just split the "cold" power output from the ETC so the chiller and the valve turn on at the same time? Pliny clone sounds good.

I use a TK-2000 Aquarium chiller for fermentation and use an EHEIM Compact+ pump to circulate the water from an igloo cooler to the jacket and back. When I'm fermenting I run the pump 24/7.

I'm considering doing something like this since a glycol chiller is not in the budget right now. Either that or recirculate ice water from an igloo cooler, and top up ice as needed.

May I ask, how long has your pump operated like that? I know these pumps can handle restriction on their outlets, but I'd wonder if they could handle that for prolonged periods of time... maybe I'm underestimating how long the temp control valve stays open.

 

[cuda6pak]

May I ask, how long has your pump operated like that? I know these pumps can handle restriction on their outlets, but I'd wonder if they could handle that for prolonged periods of time... maybe I'm underestimating how long the temp control valve stays open.

If you end up going with a TK series, let me know your plans and I can let you know which one would suit you best. The 500 was around $600 but the 2000 I have now cost just as much as a glycol setup. But, I love having the built-in heater so it's more "all-in-one" than the glycol setup.

Just a quick guess based on about 12 batches and probably 2.5 week average of fermenting the pump has about 700hrs and counting.

 

[cuda6pak]

Wow, terrible math above.

Pump has approximately 5,000 hours and counting

 

[Solstice-Brewing]

Hi all,

I’ve made it to the end of this thread and learned a lot of terrific information about BIAC brewing! Thanks to all for all the helpful hints and confirmation of many of the things I’ve been experiencing.

Background:
I got my medium BIAC last summer (2015) and have 15 10 gallon batches through it (batch 15 is fermenting). I’m in the mountains of New Mexico, so have garage brewed on 100F and 20F days. The thermal controls that come along with the system are great and the modes I’ve learned from this thread - as well as a few of my own - have helped tune this system to make highly drinkable beer. Only one bad batch in the lot when I errantly left the power control on 100% after I heated my strike water that ended up scorching my grains at dough in (shall I say DOH!-in). Lesson learned. Ended up with a “smokey” weizen bock. If only there was a way to “concentrate” this valuable alcohol into some other beverage - hmmm.

Mods:
Wort chilling in the summer when my tap water temps are ~80F is a challenge. I run my tap water through an immersion chiller in a 10 gallon cooler (which doubles as my keg cooler for picnics) of iced salt water to lower the temperature of the water going into the water jacket - still takes 45-60 minutes to cool to pitch temps. I’m installing a few other fixes (thanks to father’s day gifts from my kids) that will route my boiled wort through a hop rocket and therminator into a racking arm to whirlpool/hopback/filter and chill (all thanks to posts on this thread).

Ferm temp was solved with a couple of mods: I use the temp controller with the heating element on 1-2% for those cold nights - easy. For cooling, I roll my whole medium into an insulated box (2” foam) with an old window AC unit blowing into the "BIAC-erator" with the temp controller the show - heating or cooling. In the arid SW, it can be 100F in the day and in the 50’s at night - BIG SWINGS. However, as most have noted, once that big thermal mass is close on temperatures, it just takes some gentle nudging and a good temp controller to keep things on track. With the AC unit, I can get the beer to ~40F in a couple days - even with it’s near 100F outside (about 90-95 in my insulated, but un-cooled garage). I’d love a glycol system, but my kludged up AC system is holding it’s own for now and was a bit cheaper.

Anyway, enough for this post. Just wanted to say Hi and thanks for all the answers to my unasked questions on efficiencies, cooling, heating, grinding, dumping, hopping, whirling and everything else.

One last thing: Nathan is Awesome - no question!

Kent

 

[mdime]

Now I've got a silly general question for those of you with chiller (glycol or otherwise) setups. Do you leave the chiller pump running all the time, or do you have it turn on when the temp control valve is triggered?

I have the chiller that Nathan sells and don't use the temp control valve at all, preferring to run the pump only when triggered by the ETC.

One thing I really like about the chiller is that it has two stainless steel coils that sit in the reservoir which can be used independently of the main pump. They're designed to be used as an in-line draft cooler but I use one of them to pre-chill my groundwater while wort cooling.

 

[wholegraineggos]

If you end up going with a TK series, let me know your plans and I can let you know which one would suit you best. The 500 was around $600 but the 2000 I have now cost just as much as a glycol setup. But, I love having the built-in heater so it's more "all-in-one" than the glycol setup.

Interesting... did you experiment with fermentation heating by applying 1-2% power to the element?

I have the chiller that Nathan sells and don't use the temp control valve at all, preferring to run the pump only when triggered by the ETC.

One thing I really like about the chiller is that it has two stainless steel coils that sit in the reservoir which can be used independently of the main pump. They're designed to be used as an in-line draft cooler but I use one of them to pre-chill my groundwater while wort cooling.

That's neat. How long does it take to get the glycol down to chilling temps once the ETC turns it on?

 

[mdime]

The temperature of the liquid in the reservoir(I use water and not glycol) is controlled independently by the chiller and not the ETC so it's always cold. The chiller's pump has its own circuit which is what the ETC switches.