2 Vessel Setup Help - Need Your Opinion (Electric)

[CTS]

Hello,

So I found a pretty good deal on a 16g stainless pot that comes with a 3 piece ball valve and a 2" thermometer. It has the option to add extra weldless holes but this is were I cant be sure what I need.

I was thinking a 2 vessel system (1-MLT, 1-BK) The plan was to punch a hole at 2" from the bottom on each one for a heating element. Will this be low enough to use with a false bottom? Should I add one 2" from the top to recirculate the wort while its mashing?

I also want to have the option to whirlpool in the BK but not to sure where to add the port. Where is the best location for this?

Thanks for your help!

 

[CTS]

OK, well I guess I can always buy the pots and do the holes myself...probably cheaper also.

 

[oakbarn]

You can make your own over the side whirlpool out of copper. It is easy to find the parts and there is no drilling or punching your pots. It is fairly easy to learn to "sweat" copper. Just be sure to use lead free solder and clean before use. If you have a copper Wort Chiller that will fit in the BK (may hang it from the side), you could just use it as a HERMS and not heat the MLT. I have also used over the side Heaters to get my water close. That way you would not have to worry about elements in the MLT

 

[CTS]

You can make your own over the side whirlpool out of copper. It is easy to find the parts and there is no drilling or punching your pots. It is fairly easy to learn to "sweat" copper. Just be sure to use lead free solder and clean before use. If you have a copper Wort Chiller that will fit in the BK (may hang it from the side), you could just use it as a HERMS and not heat the MLT. I have also used over the side Heaters to get my water close. That way you would not have to worry about elements in the MLT

Some good ideas there! Will have to look at the over the side whirlpool, I like this idea. Also never thought of using a wort chiller that way. Might have to reconsider some things here.

Another thought that I had was to have a heating element in the BK only and recirculate the total brew water volume through both pots for the mash.

 

[oakbarn]

We actually use a Chillzilla as a HERMS. We have a small 9 gal electric kettle that supplies the water bath to circulate in the other tube and cycle the Wort in the inner tube. We use a BCS to control the water bath and it works great. I made a copper whirlpooler end on my hose that I transfer the cooled wort to the fermentor. We cycle Hot wort for 15 minutes to sanitize and then use a plate chiller (duda diesel) to get to pitch. If you use a Wort chiller for the HERMS just make sure you clean it well after use and have it ready for the next brew session.

 

[GreenMonti]

Maybe you'll get an idea of what you don't want from my process.

I currently use two vessels (kinda) for my brewing. Though my process is labor intensive, yours doesn't have to be.
I heat my strike water (6 gallons worth lately) to 180 in the kettle. Then I pump it into my MLT. Once it cools to 170, I drain off what I don't want in the MLT back to the kettle. Mash my grains and start the timer. I don't heat my mash nor do I recirculate it. I just give it a second stir about 30 mins in. I used to and it was fun. However, I just don't see the need these days with my brewing goals. Anyway, While the grains are doing there thing, I put 3 gallons (I typically use 9 gallons total for my batches) in the kettle. Heat that to 180. My vorlouf is about 3-4 quarts, done. Empty the kettle to a spare 6 gallon pot. I manually sparge by slowly adding it to the mash while it drains into the kettle. It's a long 45mins to an hour.

My current pump is only rated to 170 so I can't whirlpool. So I use a mash paddle and a drill. I also do this while cooling as I use an immersion chiller.

Typing this out.....I need to do the fitting on my spare pot. That or do full volume mash.

 

[CTS]

Maybe you'll get an idea of what you don't want from my process.

I currently use two vessels (kinda) for my brewing. Though my process is labor intensive, yours doesn't have to be.
I heat my strike water (6 gallons worth lately) to 180 in the kettle. Then I pump it into my MLT. Once it cools to 170, I drain off what I don't want in the MLT back to the kettle. Mash my grains and start the timer. I don't heat my mash nor do I recirculate it. I just give it a second stir about 30 mins in. I used to and it was fun. However, I just don't see the need these days with my brewing goals. Anyway, While the grains are doing there thing, I put 3 gallons (I typically use 9 gallons total for my batches) in the kettle. Heat that to 180. My vorlouf is about 3-4 quarts, done. Empty the kettle to a spare 6 gallon pot. I manually sparge by slowly adding it to the mash while it drains into the kettle. It's a long 45mins to an hour.

My current pump is only rated to 170 so I can't whirlpool. So I use a mash paddle and a drill. I also do this while cooling as I use an immersion chiller.

Typing this out.....I need to do the fitting on my spare pot. That or do full volume mash.

Don't you lose to much heat if your not applying any during the mash? Or is your pot insulated? I just switched to a batch sparge and increased my efficencey to 75% from fly spargeing with 65%. So its safe to say I am done with fly sparging as batch sparging yields me better efficiency and time savings. Guess I will be going with a no sparge in the new setup.

I have thought of the drill idea...using it with a paint mixer.

 

[CTS]

We actually use a Chillzilla as a HERMS. We have a small 9 gal electric kettle that supplies the water bath to circulate in the other tube and cycle the Wort in the inner tube. We use a BCS to control the water bath and it works great. I made a copper whirlpooler end on my hose that I transfer the cooled wort to the fermentor. We cycle Hot wort for 15 minutes to sanitize and then use a plate chiller (duda diesel) to get to pitch. If you use a Wort chiller for the HERMS just make sure you clean it well after use and have it ready for the next brew session.

I'm going to have to look some of this up! haha Might just start out simple and maybe add some of these in as I go.

 

[CTS]

Also what is a good distance to drill the hole for the element from the bottom of the pot? 2" or 3"?

 

[GreenMonti]

Don't you lose to much heat if your not applying any during the mash? Or is your pot insulated? I just switched to a batch sparge and increased my efficencey to 75% from fly spargeing with 65%. So its safe to say I am done with fly sparging as batch sparging yields me better efficiency and time savings. Guess I will be going with a no sparge in the new setup.

I have thought of the drill idea...using it with a paint mixer.

Short answer.....No. In my mind I don't loose to much heat during the mash.

Long answer,
I've made a decision to keep my brewing experiences fun. I've chased numbers before. With a general target mash temp range being 146-156 and a time of an hour. My MLT is only wrapped in a bath towel. When I strike at 170 I hit 150-152 pretty much every time I've taken the time to measure. In my mind mash conversion is done within 20 mins and the rest of the mash time is to get my beer to attenuate to a lower number. My MLT will hold within the temp range for the hour or real close to the hour. At which point I start adding the 170 degree sparge water to boost the temp of the grain bed while I am running off into the kettle. Essentially giving me an even longer mash time since my sparge water is cooling off while I'm taking from it slowly for the sparge. Remember it's just sitting in a spare pot. I really have no idea what the temp of my sparge water is as I near the end of my sparge.

I've thought about doing a full volume mash before and recirculating it through my kettle and then just let it drain. However, I can't get over the fact that I won't be rinsing the grain. It's a bit wasteful in my frugal mind. I could hold a gallon or two out, but how would I heat it using the brewing system?

Sorry, I'm starting to ramble.

Here's a good read on mashing.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Starch_Conversion

Edit:
Plus, I don't have a way to control my fermentation temps. So I don't think I'd see any effects in taste (if there is any such thing) from mash temps over my inconsistency in fermentation. To me my beer is good. My friends aren't beer judges and they also like my beer. So we are all happy.
That's what I love about home brewing. It has an aspect, method, or a piece of equipment for anyone involved.

To your question about the element location. I would place it as low as possible. It will be covered sooner as the kettle fills and it will heat faster.

 

[wishingiwasfishing]

Hi, I've got an electric two kettle rims system. In my boil kettle I have a the regular (vertical) bottom valve and thermometer fittings. Just off to the side of these, 4" up, I have a whirlpool fitting.


Then 2" up I have a a 1.5" TC fitting for the electric element in back of the kettle, I would rotate the hole just a bit, so it's not completely opposite the valve opening.

I went with the intergrated Heating element

On my Mash Tun I have, again, the two standard (vertical) fitting for the valve and thermometer. Up high, an 1.5" from the top, I have a fitting for the inlet of this Circulating K-Rims system. This inlet has an autosparge on the inside of the kettle to regulate the level.

Boil Kettle front

Boil Kettle back

Mash Tun Front

Mash Tun Back

The idea is that you bring the total water up to strike temp. Then you add your grains and start circulating the grains up to the mash tun...open the bottom valve on your mash tun to deposit back into the boil kettle (in the whirlpool inlet). Mash for intended time.

Turn pump off and let everything drain to the bottom Boil Kettle. Turn valves off and hook the pump output up to the whirlpool inlet. Now you boil. There's a guy on youTube that kind of runs through the process...you can find it here

a picture of the kettles hooked up, although you can't see the pump or the plate chiller

 

[rudylyon57]

We actually use a Chillzilla as a HERMS. We have a small 9 gal electric kettle that supplies the water bath to circulate in the other tube and cycle the Wort in the inner tube. We use a BCS to control the water bath and it works great. I made a copper whirlpooler end on my hose that I transfer the cooled wort to the fermentor. We cycle Hot wort for 15 minutes to sanitize and then use a plate chiller (duda diesel) to get to pitch. If you use a Wort chiller for the HERMS just make sure you clean it well after use and have it ready for the next brew session.

Oakbarn: Your setup made me think of using a counter-flow wort chiller for both HERMS and wort chiller heat exchanger. Some extra plumbing would be needed to direct inner tube from MLT to BK and outer jacket from HLT to cooling water. Slightly off the OP's original topic...sorry.

 

[CTS]

Short answer.....No. In my mind I don't loose to much heat during the mash.

Long answer,
I've made a decision to keep my brewing experiences fun. I've chased numbers before. With a general target mash temp range being 146-156 and a time of an hour. My MLT is only wrapped in a bath towel. When I strike at 170 I hit 150-152 pretty much every time I've taken the time to measure. In my mind mash conversion is done within 20 mins and the rest of the mash time is to get my beer to attenuate to a lower number. My MLT will hold within the temp range for the hour or real close to the hour. At which point I start adding the 170 degree sparge water to boost the temp of the grain bed while I am running off into the kettle. Essentially giving me an even longer mash time since my sparge water is cooling off while I'm taking from it slowly for the sparge. Remember it's just sitting in a spare pot. I really have no idea what the temp of my sparge water is as I near the end of my sparge.

I've thought about doing a full volume mash before and recirculating it through my kettle and then just let it drain. However, I can't get over the fact that I won't be rinsing the grain. It's a bit wasteful in my frugal mind. I could hold a gallon or two out, but how would I heat it using the brewing system?

Sorry, I'm starting to ramble.

Here's a good read on mashing.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Starch_Conversion

Edit:
Plus, I don't have a way to control my fermentation temps. So I don't think I'd see any effects in taste (if there is any such thing) from mash temps over my inconsistency in fermentation. To me my beer is good. My friends aren't beer judges and they also like my beer. So we are all happy.
That's what I love about home brewing. It has an aspect, method, or a piece of equipment for anyone involved.

To your question about the element location. I would place it as low as possible. It will be covered sooner as the kettle fills and it will heat faster.

I might have to try just mashing in the pot then. (Just bought them before the sale is up) sounds like a little bit of insulation might make it work. I have been using the cooler mash tun setup for the 10yrs or so.

Still want to be able to set the mash temp by control and play with step mashing.

The company I bought the pots from recommended 3" from the bottom. So probably what I will go with as I am going to be doing the holes my self once I get the parts.

 

[rudylyon57]

I might have to try just mashing in the pot then. (Just bought them before the sale is up) sounds like a little bit of insulation might make it work. I have been using the cooler mash tun setup for the 10yrs or so.

Still want to be able to set the mash temp by control and play with step mashing.

The company I bought the pots from recommended 3" from the bottom. So probably what I will go with as I am going to be doing the holes my self once I get the parts.

3" seems high to me. If you will be drilling-swaging-soldering triclover ferrules, curvature of the base of your pot will be the lower limit of how far off bottom your element should be. You will not want to swage into the base radius. The upper limit will be clearance for your false bottom.

 

[CTS]

3" seems high to me. If you will be drilling-swaging-soldering triclover ferrules, curvature of the base of your pot will be the lower limit of how far off bottom your element should be. You will not want to swage into the base radius. The upper limit will be clearance for your false bottom.

I kinda thought the same thing...always had 2" in mind. Also why I never got them to do it and I will be doing it myself once I get the parts.

Now at the same time I want to do what the guys at the electric Brewery have done and use a trub buster underneath the element. They claim that 3" is as low as they could go with it.

 

[CTS]

Hi, I've got an electric two kettle rims system. In my boil kettle I have a the regular (vertical) bottom valve and thermometer fittings. Just off to the side of these, 4" up, I have a whirlpool fitting.


Then 2" up I have a a 1.5" TC fitting for the electric element in back of the kettle, I would rotate the hole just a bit, so it's not completely opposite the valve opening.

I went with the intergrated Heating element

On my Mash Tun I have, again, the two standard (vertical) fitting for the valve and thermometer. Up high, an 1.5" from the top, I have a fitting for the inlet of this Circulating K-Rims system. This inlet has an autosparge on the inside of the kettle to regulate the level.

Boil Kettle front

Boil Kettle back

Mash Tun Front

Mash Tun Back

The idea is that you bring the total water up to strike temp. Then you add your grains and start circulating the grains up to the mash tun...open the bottom valve on your mash tun to deposit back into the boil kettle (in the whirlpool inlet). Mash for intended time.

Turn pump off and let everything drain to the bottom Boil Kettle. Turn valves off and hook the pump output up to the whirlpool inlet. Now you boil. There's a guy on youTube that kind of runs through the process...you can find it here

a picture of the kettles hooked up, although you can't see the pump or the plate chiller

Very nice setup!

 

[GreenMonti]

I might have to try just mashing in the pot then. (Just bought them before the sale is up) sounds like a little bit of insulation might make it work. I have been using the cooler mash tun setup for the 10yrs or so.

Still want to be able to set the mash temp by control and play with step mashing.

The company I bought the pots from recommended 3" from the bottom. So probably what I will go with as I am going to be doing the holes my self once I get the parts.

You got me there. I can't step mash very easily.

You may be in a colder situation then I am. A towel works for me.

 

[jcav]

Here's a good read on mashing.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Starch_Conversion

That was a good article on mashing GreenMonti. Also it's good to see you posting again on the forum. Haven't seen you in awhile but I see lately your back at it again!

John

 

[GreenMonti]

That was a good article on mashing GreenMonti. Also it's good to see you posting again on the forum. Haven't seen you in awhile but I see lately your back at it again!

John

Thank you.
I'm glad you enjoyed that write up.

Yea I took a break from brewing, (not drinking) sold all my gear, and missed every bit of it. I only kept my pump and my flash boiler. So I have scabbed together some new bits and to my surprise my brews are still just as tasty. Once you know the process you can get it done in many different ways. Of course I'm also enjoying the building of new toys too. Hehe.

Just went electric and have my first electric batch. Did the welding Friday, crash wired a test setup and brewed Sunday.

My apologies to the OP. Off topic I know.

 

[CTS]

You got me there. I can't step mash very easily.

You may be in a colder situation then I am. A towel works for me.

Yup colder climate for sure. I don't brew in the winter as I can't use the garden hose for chilling the wort. If I do I have to fill the bath tub with snow and water. Haha.

Summers can easily get to 95f here but 80f to 85f is the normal. So can see it being easier then.

 

[wishingiwasfishing]

Very nice setup!

Thanks...since I had a 2 kettle brewing system I thought it may help to see where I had the connections on my kettles. Then you could visualize where you wanted to put them on your setup...similar or different.

There are a few things I'd consider doing differently. The main one would be to look into using TC connections on the valves, then getting TC butterfly valves. Again, not sure if I would go through with it...but for continued confidence in cleaning...I'd consider it.

2" up from the bottom of the kettle, for the heating element, is good in my setup (YMMV).

Dan

 

[GreenMonti]

Yup colder climate for sure. I don't brew in the winter as I can't use the garden hose for chilling the wort. If I do I have to fill the bath tub with snow and water. Haha.

Summers can easily get to 95f here but 80f to 85f is the normal. So can see it being easier then.

I made that mistake once. I got setup and doughed in. Then I went out to get my hoses ready for later in the brew session. Only to realize my hose was frozen. It doesn't get that cold here very often. All I was thinking of was, being in the shop on a cold day making the nectar of the gods. Haha.

Maybe you cloud burry a wort chiller. Haha. Just make sure to blow it out between brews.

 

[CTS]

Hi, I've got an electric two kettle rims system. In my boil kettle I have a the regular (vertical) bottom valve and thermometer fittings. Just off to the side of these, 4" up, I have a whirlpool fitting.


Then 2" up I have a a 1.5" TC fitting for the electric element in back of the kettle, I would rotate the hole just a bit, so it's not completely opposite the valve opening.

I went with the intergrated Heating element

On my Mash Tun I have, again, the two standard (vertical) fitting for the valve and thermometer. Up high, an 1.5" from the top, I have a fitting for the inlet of this Circulating K-Rims system. This inlet has an autosparge on the inside of the kettle to regulate the level.

Boil Kettle front

Boil Kettle back

Mash Tun Front

Mash Tun Back

The idea is that you bring the total water up to strike temp. Then you add your grains and start circulating the grains up to the mash tun...open the bottom valve on your mash tun to deposit back into the boil kettle (in the whirlpool inlet). Mash for intended time.

Turn pump off and let everything drain to the bottom Boil Kettle. Turn valves off and hook the pump output up to the whirlpool inlet. Now you boil. There's a guy on youTube that kind of runs through the process...you can find it here

a picture of the kettles hooked up, although you can't see the pump or the plate chiller

So I know this thread is pretty old but I keep coming back to your set up. Any chance you can take a closer picture of your panel? Curious as to what you have put in it. Thanks!

 

[wishingiwasfishing]

So I know this thread is pretty old but I keep coming back to your set up. Any chance you can take a closer picture of your panel? Curious as to what you have put in it. Thanks!

Sorry I didn't see your response sooner, CTS! Thanks for the kind words. I bought the kit from Auber, it's the BIAB kit here.

Here's a closer look at my build

You can see in my setup that I only have one pump. I'll hook it up for recirculating the two kettle system. Then, after the boil is done I hook it in line with my plate chiller. The one pump switch controls this pump. I use the other "pump" labeled switch to control my ventilation fan (box fan positioned in the nearby window).

Take care,

Dan

 

[CTS]

No problem! Thanks for the picture. I didn't even know they had a kit. Now I am not sure what to do Haha. I wish the CDN dollar wasn't so low, would make this an easy choice.

Here is what I have planned, total design steal from the electric Brewery. Not sure if I will add the amp and volt meters as it adds unnessasary cost to the build and extra room needed in the case.

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