2-row vs 6-row

[stratstud00]

I'm planning to make a light lager style cerveza (a la Pacifico, Dos Equis, etc.). Most recipes I have found call for roughly a 3:2 ratio of 2 row malt to 6 row malt, and flaked corn. My question is, can I use ALL 2 row malt and omit the 6 row? Due to a shipping error, I currently have way too much 2 row that has been milled already and I want to use it before it goes bad.

 

[BargainFittings]

Yes. You can use all 2 row.

 

[orionol73]

I am no expert but to my understanding there are more enzymes in the 6-row than 2-row and these extra enzymes help to break down the starches in the unmalted adjuncts to convert them to fermentable sugars.

As far as getting away with the 2-row instead of 6-row, I am not sure but I think it would be determined by the percentage of your grist that was unmalted

 

[normonster]

Another benefit of 6 row, I understand, is that there is more husk material to help with lautering a sticky rice heavy mash. I've never tried it my self because these damn bags of 2 row keep showing up on my doorstep.

 

[BargainFittings]

Well the post was that they are using a mix of 3 parts 2 row to 2 parts 6 row and some flaked corn.

Modern 2 row has plenty of power to convert itself and a large percentage of adjuncts.

From a personal perspective I've used 5 pounds of corn meal and all 2 row malt in a 10 gallon batch with full conversion.

EDIT: I used to buy all 6 row early on in my brewing because it was cheaper. No real difference in switching to 2 row.

 

[stratstud00]

Well the post was that they are using a mix of 3 parts 2 row to 2 parts 6 row and some flaked corn.

Modern 2 row has plenty of power to convert itself and a large percentage of adjuncts.

From a personal perspective I've used 5 pounds of corn meal and all 2 row malt in a 10 gallon batch with full conversion.

EDIT: I used to buy all 6 row early on in my brewing because it was cheaper. No real difference in switching to 2 row.

Below is the recipe I am considering. Obviously the 6 row will be replaced with 2 row.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: WPL940 (Mexi Lager)
Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 11
Original Gravity: 1.053
Final Gravity: 1.010
IBU: 15.3
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 3.3 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 Days 52 Deg
Additional Fermentation: Lower temp 5 Deg/day till 32 Deg Lager for 6 weeks
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 6 days 62Deg

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 14.07 gal
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 3.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 15.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7 lbs 12.8 oz Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 39.0 %
7 lbs 12.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 39.0 %
4 lbs 6.4 oz Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 22.0 %
2.10 oz Liberty [4.30%] (60 min) Hops 15.3 IBU
1.20 oz Liberty [4.30%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops -
2 Pkgs Mexican Lager (White Labs #WLP940) (I actually used a 1/2 gallon starter that I stepped up from 1 vial)

 

[BentBrewer]

Modern 2 row has plenty of power to convert itself and a large percentage of adjuncts.

If you actually look at a malt bill for modern 2-row and modern 6-row, the extra enzyme power of the 6-row is minimal compared to the 2-row. Probably as recently as 10 years ago, there might have been a bigger difference, but not anymore.
If you're using a huge amount of corn, I'd toss some rice hulls in for the lautering end of things, but wouldn't worry about things otherwise.

 

[5mooth0perator]

I'm planning to make a light lager style cerveza (a la Pacifico, Dos Equis, etc.). Most recipes I have found call for roughly a 3:2 ratio of 2 row malt to 6 row malt, and flaked corn. My question is, can I use ALL 2 row malt and omit the 6 row? Due to a shipping error, I currently have way too much 2 row that has been milled already and I want to use it before it goes bad.

I would make a different plan. http://www.morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/bmg/schwarz.html

120 diastatic power vs 160 is quite a bit

 

[timdillon36]

but you can only use 100% of the power so if the extra 20% per lb of 2 row is enough per lb of corn you should be fine. Maybe think about a 90 min mash. 😜😉

 

[BargainFittings]

That will work. Some rice hulls is good insurance. I crush very fine and had 18 pounds 2 row to 5 pounds of corn meal and still drained fine if a little slow.

 

[catdaddy66]

Below is the recipe I am considering. Obviously the 6 row will be replaced with 2 row.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: WPL940 (Mexi Lager)
Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 11
Original Gravity: 1.053
Final Gravity: 1.010
IBU: 15.3
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 3.3 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 Days 52 Deg
Additional Fermentation: Lower temp 5 Deg/day till 32 Deg Lager for 6 weeks
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 6 days 62Deg

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 14.07 gal
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 3.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 15.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7 lbs 12.8 oz Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 39.0 %
7 lbs 12.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 39.0 %
4 lbs 6.4 oz Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 22.0 %
2.10 oz Liberty [4.30%] (60 min) Hops 15.3 IBU
1.20 oz Liberty [4.30%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops -
2 Pkgs Mexican Lager (White Labs #WLP940) (I actually used a 1/2 gallon starter that I stepped up from 1 vial)

Just thinking out loud... That is a lot of flaked maize! Personally for 11 gallons I wouldn't do more than 5#. I do a similar recipe for my cream of three crops ale.

It should drink well regardless. Carry on, home brewer!

 

[5mooth0perator]

but you can only use 100% of the power so if the extra 20% per lb of 2 row is enough per lb of corn you should be fine. Maybe think about a 90 min mash. 😜😉

Just be sure to use "fresh" malt and get the temperatures right.

 

[RoadKing]

You need an average Diastatic Power of 30 to convert the enzymes in
your mash. 2row has a DP of 120, so if you used all 2 row, (12 lbs)
it would be 12x120= 1440 DP. Divide that by all the grain in your recipe (about 20) so, 1440÷20= 72 DP. More than enough.

 

[Denny]

I am no expert but to my understanding there are more enzymes in the 6-row than 2-row and these extra enzymes help to break down the starches in the unmalted adjuncts to convert them to fermentable sugars.

As far as getting away with the 2-row instead of 6-row, I am not sure but I think it would be determined by the percentage of your grist that was unmalted

Not necessarily. These days the diastatic power of 6 row and 2 row is pretty much equal.

 

[5mooth0perator]

You need an average Diastatic Power of 30 to convert the enzymes in
your mash. 2row has a DP of 120, so if you used all 2 row, (12 lbs)
it would be 12x120= 1440 DP. Divide that by all the grain in your recipe (about 20) so, 1440÷20= 72 DP. More than enough.

Does that account for the difference in starch content? My experience has been that rice and corn convert nearly completely, rice kernels or corn masa. I put the adjuncts in brew bags, and they practically disappear, and when I use two row the corn doesn't convert as well. I don't think this invalidates your calculations, I'm just curious.

 

[Denny]

Does that account for the difference in starch content? My experience has been that rice and corn convert nearly completely, rice kernels or corn masa. I put the adjuncts in brew bags, and they practically disappear, and when I use two row the corn doesn't convert as well. I don't think this invalidates your calculations, I'm just curious.

How did you determine the corn isn't converting as well?

 

[RoadKing]

If the corn isn't pre-gelatinized, (eg;Flaked corn), you still need to do a cereal mash to bring out the starches.
Yes it accounts for different starch contents. That's why you get the average diastatic power per lb. of everything that has enzymes that can convert, THEN add in the corn, rice etc. then look for the average DP. Even with a mash of 60/40 it will work, but that would be more of a whiskey type mash...

 

[5mooth0perator]

How did you determine the corn isn't converting as well?

FYI, masa has been nixtamalized, which involves boiling in a alkaline solution I believe they use lime, so it is essentially pregelatinzed. I make a brew bag, because I have trouble with clogging form the flour, this however lets me monitor how well the corn masa converts. The two row had a much courser texture and larger volume as compared to the start. Same with rice, I start with precooked white rice, then look at the size of the grains. They practically disappear when fully converted.

Anymore, I use a shredded sweet potato that works about the best.

 

[Denny]

FYI, masa has been nixtamalized, which involves boiling in a alkaline solution I believe they use lime, so it is essentially pregelatinzed. I make a brew bag, because I have trouble with clogging form the flour, this however lets me monitor how well the corn masa converts. The two row had a much courser texture and larger volume as compared to the start. Same with rice, I start with precooked white rice, then look at the size of the grains. They practically disappear when fully converted.

Anymore, I use a shredded sweet potato that works about the best.

How did you come to equate the size with conversion?

 

[5mooth0perator]

How did you come to equate the size with conversion?

I didn't think much about, but know that you ask. Corn flour is like 95% starch, so if more than 5% is left over, something didn't convert.

http://www.kickas.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=143543

 

[Denny]

I didn't think much about, but know that you ask. Corn flour is like 95% starch, so if more than 5% is left over, something didn't convert.

http://www.kickas.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=143543

With all due respect, I just don't think you can judge it by that. There could be a lot of reasons why it would dissolve without converting the starch to sugar. IMO, the only way to know is with a gravity reading. But I could be wrong.

 

[5mooth0perator]

With all due respect, I just don't think you can judge it by that. There could be a lot of reasons why it would dissolve without converting the starch to sugar. IMO, the only way to know is with a gravity reading. But I could be wrong.

Sure, 6-row probably has more of other types of proteins and enzymes that help in that regards.

 

[Denny]

Sure, 6-row probably has more of other types of proteins and enzymes that help in that regards.

Not really. 6 row and 2 row are pretty much equal in that regard.