1st use of secondary

[bulbous_blues]

Hi

I'm brewing my first strong ale, a wee heavy. I decided to do a small batch of just 3 gallons and was hoping to have first tastings at Christmas.

I'm expecting to leave in the primary for about 3 to 4 weeks (or when done fermenting) then move to a secondary for about a month or 2, I'm considering adding some wood chips.

My questions are.

I only have a 5 gallon glass carboy is this to big for 3 gallons in secondary?

Can I bring the beer in the house once it is in the secondary (I want to free up freezer space). The house stays around 70 degrees, but may be some fluctuations in temp say between 65 to 73? Will this be a problem.

Thanks!!

 

[WayFrae]

Room temps should be fine for bulk conditioning but you should buy a 3 gallon carboy. You want as little headspace as possible for your secondary vessel.

 

[bulbous_blues]

I was hoping you wouldn't say that lol I guess it's worth the investment of about $30. Still it's good to know I can condition it in the house. Thanks

 

[JBIII]

I'd recommend transferring to secondary just prior to the end of primary fermentation/reaching final gravity and letting it sit in the secondary fermenter for the remainder of your original primary + secondary fermentation duration.

This way you still have CO2 being produced which will at best purge all of the oxygen after transferring to the 5 gallon glass carboy and at worst create a layer of CO2 (heavier than oxygen) which will sit immediately on top of your beer, which will prohibit the oxygen from interacting with your beer.

And autolysis won't be a major concern either, being that you will have pulled your beer off of the large majority of the yeast cake when you move to secondary fermentation...


Hope this helps and happy brewing...

 

[captianoats]

Do you keg? You could secondary in the keg and just pressurize. This would purge the oxygen.


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[bulbous_blues]

I haven't progressed to kegging yet, I figured if I had a CO2 tank I could probably just purge the carboy with CO2.

Thanks for the idea of putting in the secondary just before end of fermentation.
Have you done this yourself?

 

[bulbous_blues]

Anyhow what I've decided to do is bottle 2 gallons and put remaining 1 gallon in a gallon jug and condition there with some wood chips. Then I can compare

Cheers

 

[chewse]

just curious...why wood chips? Does the recipe call for it?

 

[peterj]

I'd recommend transferring to secondary just prior to the end of primary fermentation/reaching final gravity and letting it sit in the secondary fermenter for the remainder of your original primary + secondary fermentation duration.

I wouldn't recommend this. You shouldn't take the beer off the yeast before it has finished fermenting. The more yeast the beer is in contact with, the more efficiently they can finish fermenting and clean up their byproducts.

This way you still have CO2 being produced which will at best purge all of the oxygen after transferring to the 5 gallon glass carboy and at worst create a layer of CO2 (heavier than oxygen) which will sit immediately on top of your beer, which will prohibit the oxygen from interacting with your beer.

If there was enough CO2 being produced to completely purge the headspace this would be ok, but there's no way to know if there is or will be. And if there is enough produced then you have transferred off the yeast too early.

The concept of CO2 being heavier than air and settling out in a closed system is not correct. When you have a mixture of two gasses, they will diffuse and mix randomly regardless of the molecular weight. If heavier gasses did settle out, we would all be dead because the CO2 in the atmosphere would settle beneath the O2.

Do you keg? You could secondary in the keg and just pressurize. This would purge the oxygen.

You would need to pressurize and release the pressure and repressurize a few times to purge the majority of the oxygen out. Maybe that's what you meant. But if you just pressurized, all of the oxygen would still be in there along with the CO2 you pressurized with.

Anyhow what I've decided to do is bottle 2 gallons and put remaining 1 gallon in a gallon jug and condition there with some wood chips. Then I can compare

Cheers

That sounds like a great plan! Then you can compare wood aged vs. non wood aged. Aging in the bottle isn't all that much different than bulk aging. It may be a little more inconsistent, but you'll probably have similar results.

 

[JBIII]

peterj's point of trying your own method is solid, the rest are shaky. I've used this method and have always had positive results.

It's not the yeast cake which ferments your wort it's the yeast in suspension. As the yeast drop out of suspension and form the layer cake, they are functionally useless. Put another way, the only interaction the layer cake will have with your yeast is with the surface area at the bottom of your wort level, which is minimal.

And regarding the secondary fermenter comment...it is also incorrect. It is not a closed system as the airlock allows air to escape. Closed systems are airtight and allow nothing in or out.

This statement is also contradictory to the trailing argument... Both solutions share identical methodologies...using pressure to purge oxygen from an oxygen and CO2 environment. Which is actually the same method most brewers use when filling kegs... Using a CO2 burst to drive off oxygen, before filling.


Hope this helps and happy brewing...






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[peterj]

peterj's point of trying your own method is solid, the rest are shaky. I've used this method and have always had positive results.

It's not the yeast cake which ferments your wort it's the yeast in suspension. As the yeast drop out of suspension and form the layer cake, they are functionally useless. Put another way, the only interaction the layer cake will have with your yeast is with the surface area at the bottom of your wort level, which is minimal.

It is the yeast in suspension that does most of the work, but the yeast cake also interacts with your beer (at the surface area at the bottom of your beer) and plays a role in cleaning it up. I said transferring off of it very early would be less efficient (and so possibly not result in as good of a beer). I didn't say it was the yeast cake that ferments your wort.

And regarding the secondary fermenter comment...it is also incorrect. It is not a closed system as the airlock allows air to escape. Closed systems are airtight and allow nothing in or out.

Once the yeast stops producing CO2 it is very close to a closed system. The airlock doesn't allow any gas to come in and the amount of gas escaping through the airlock is negligible. So the amount of CO2 and air are effectively fixed. The technicalities of a closed system were not the point of my comment. The fact is that once the yeast stop producing CO2, if there is still oxygen in there it will not settle out above a layer of CO2. It will disperse evenly and lead to oxidation.

This statement is also contradictory to the trailing argument... Both solutions share identical methodologies...using pressure to purge oxygen from an oxygen and CO2 environment. Which is actually the same method most brewers use when filling kegs... Using a CO2 burst to drive off oxygen, before filling.

Again you're not taking into account everything I said:

If there was enough CO2 being produced to completely purge the headspace this would be ok, but there's no way to know if there is or will be. And if there is enough produced then you have transferred off the yeast too early.

If you transfer while active fermentation is still going on then there will probably be enough CO2 produced to purge the headspace. But as I said before this is too early (in my opinion) to transfer. And if you do it after active fermentation there's no real way to know how much CO2 is being produced and if it was enough to purge all of the air from the headspace. It may or may not be, and I wouldn't feel comfortable taking the chance (or advising someone else to).

 

[bulbous_blues]

In response to chewse to using wood chips

Although this is my first attempt at brewing a wee heavy, I've definitely drunk a few. I'm not sure if your familiar with the style, but it is strong, very malty and sweet. As I understand It lends itself well to smokey, peaty and wood flavors, it is aged for long periods and sometimes in barrels. I know home brewers use wood chips to achieve that barrel aged taste with out actually having to own a barrel. It's all new to me but I am going to soak the wood chips in whiskey or bourbon for 2 or 3 weeks, I hoping this will also add good flavor and take care of the chips being sanitary.

Thanks to all the other replys, I decided to go with bottling two gallons and the rest in a gallon jug for 3 reasons. One I don't need to buy a 3 gallon carboy (very good reason), I get to compare adding wood chips with not (in case I ass up the wood chips). And lastly with the batches I have brewed I have found that the beers I've left longer in the primary seem to come out much better.