1st brew - Edmund Fitz tribute - How long in fermenter(s)??

[skultch]

Hello everybody!!

I'm new here and new to brewing. I made my first ever batch last night with a friend who's been brewing for a few years. I was originally planning on cloning the Black Butte Porter for SWMBO, but we were semi-limited on ingredients, and we found some recipes that we thought we could come close to, so we went with the Eddie Fitz. I grew up in CLE and this beer is probably my favorite porter, so why not?

I would love some opinions on how I should proceed. Being my first ever batch, I really want to nail this one. I'm up for any input whatsoever, but I'm specifically looking for recomendations on fermentation and bottling schedules.

Should I secondary? My friend thinks it's unnecessary with modern yeast strains. Should I even bother testing a bottle after 1 week of conditioning, or should I wait until 2 or 3 weeks?

Here's my recipe / process. Sorry if it's hard to understand. I didn't care about nice round numbers, but jik I make something great, I wanted to have exact measurements to replicate. My scale went to .00x, so why not? haha

Specialty Malts added to 3 gal at 160 F:

13.845 oz C-20
8.190 oz Roasted
8.040 oz Chocolate

steeped for 20 min - sparged like a noob

1.5 tbsp gypsum

brought to boil - 192 F (I'm at 11,200 ft elevation)

1oz ea of 3 hop varieties

chinook 12.5%
for 60 min

fuggle 5.1%
for 30 min

1 tsp irish moss
1/2 tsp yeast nutrient
for 15 min

3lbs each - Briess from DMEmart
dark dme
golden light dme

2.945 oz corn sugar
at 5 min

cascade 5.4%
at 0 min

added 1.8 gal cold tap water (I have delicious mountain well water and no one lives uphill )
which brought it to 142 F

I let it sit outside, covered, in 5 degrees F ambient temp, until it reached 100 F.

Racked to 5 gallon carboy using a small siphon and screened funnel. I got a very good aeration out of that process.

Muttons dry yeast packet added at 90 degrees F using the wort as the starter, which was aerated with a spoon.

og 1.061 = 7.8% abv potential (NAILED IT! )

42.1 IBU potential based on 3.2 gallon boil. I've read that the low boil temp (192) and high evaporation rate will cause underutilization.


Thanks for the help guys!

 

[trevorc13]

Don't secondary unless you want to add fruit or oak. It may also be a good idea to try a bottle per week for noobs so you can taste the evolution of the conditioning process. Don't expect it to be near done after one week though. That will take at least 3.

 

[rudu81]

Give it 3 weeks in primary and 3 in the bottle. I tasted a bottle every week for my first few brews so I that I could get a feel for what "green" beer tastes like and when it should be ready.

 

[dmcoates]

Give it 3 weeks in primary and 3 in the bottle. I tasted a bottle every week for my first few brews so I that I could get a feel for what "green" beer tastes like and when it should be ready.

YA, no need for secondary.

I do 4 weeks in primary and 2 weeks in the keg. But that 6 weeks just the same.

 

[Golddiggie]

If you want to be ultra-precise in your measurements, why not go with grams instead of ounces? Then you probably would have round numbers...

I'm actually starting to measure my hops in grams, since the scale I have is not sensitive enough in the fractional ounce range. I'll probably start using the powder scale I inherited from my father (it's digital, back when he was around and reloaded)...

For how long to let it go... Give it at least two weeks before you take any readings on it... If possible, let it go three, then take a hydrometer reading and taste the sample too. Wait a couple of days and repeat... As long as the SG is stable, and it TASTES RIGHT/GOOD, bottle or keg her up...

Since you have an uber accurate scale, measure the priming sugar on it... Use one of the CO2 volume calculator tools/sites to figure out how much sugar to add to the priming solution. I would also track what temperature the wort is at during the first week, or two, as it's actively fermenting. You'll want to reference that when figuring out how much sugars you'll need to prime with (if bottling or naturally carbonating a keg)...

BTW, steeping is not sparging...

 

[bthomas9]

42.1 IBU potential based on 3.2 gallon boil. I've read that the low boil temp (192) and high evaporation rate will cause under utilization.

I have also read that the late extract addition will cause under utilization of the hops too. The recipe looks great, and I'd be curious how it tastes compared to the GLBC's beer.

 

[skultch]

Thanks for all the input guys!

So, a little update:

The wort was at 90 F when I added the yeast. This was at 1am Monday night. The next morning I had a very small amount of blowoff, great bubbling action, and a ton of krausen. Success! I covered the carboy with a fleece blanket to block the sunlight while I was at work. After 18 hours of fermenting, the beer was still above the 82 degree limit of my stick-on thermometer. I removed the blanket for a couple hours until it finally registered at 81/82 degrees, then put the blanket back on. There is still a small amount of co2 escaping the blowoff tube. I will replace that with a standard airlock tonight. This morning it was at 75 F. I keep the room at 65-66.

Now, on to fermenting time theory. I don't like the idea of dogmatically waiting 3 weeks, just because that's the accepted standard. What if my yeast is very efficient? What if the 24 hours of 82+ degrees speeds up the process?

I'm going to take Golddiggie's suggestion and test SG at 2 or 3 weeks, then test again 2 days later. If the SG is stable, I'll bottle then. I just don't see the point of leaving it in the fermenter if the yeast is dormant. I've read that leaving it in longer will work out any off flavors that might be present, and it might clear up the beer. I guess the former speaks to Golddiggie's suggestion that it hydro test should taste "good" and if not, leave it be and retest.

Is sparging basically squeezing the wort out of the grain bag?

I plan on using the online calculator for the priming sugar. This is probably a dumb question, but, do you add more yeast at that point? I think not. Does the original yeast come out of dormancy once it has more sugar to eat? Won't this increase the ABV as well as carbonating in the bottle?

I'm excited to experience the bottle conditioning process. I will take the suggestions here, and try a bottle after 1, 2 and 3 weeks. I've been aging commercial beers for years now, and if this batch is even just good, I will probably age it indefinitely. We'll see how strong the flavors are and if mellowing is advantageous. Mostly, I just want to save a few of my 1st batch for sentimental reasons.

Thanks again, guys.

 

[RDWHAHB]

Hello everybody!!

I'm new here and new to brewing. ....I was originally planning on the Black Butt....for SWMBO.....so we went with the Eddie Fitz.....probably my favorite , so why not?

I would love some opinions on how I should proceed. Being my first ever ...I really want to nail this one. I'm up for any input whatsoever

Edited for brevity. Reminds of another 1st post!

 

[Golddiggie]

TASTE IT before you rack or bottle... Fermenting as HOT as you are, chances are it will need more time to get rid of off flavors.

Sparging is, basically, rinsing MASHED grains with higher temperature water than you mash with to extract the last bits of sugars you can. So, no, steeping and sparging are not the same...

With how HOT you're fermenting at, you'll need a lot of sugar to prime it. I don't know what the thermal range is of that yeast, but the higher the fermenting temperature, the less CO2 is trapped within the wort during fermentation. Which means you need to add more sugars when bottling it up to compensate. Plug in 81F to a priming calculator for the fermentation temperature... Then plug in 60F for the temperature... Actually, the priming widget site only lets you enter up to 80F for the temperature... To get the same CO2 volumes that you would if you fermented at closer to 60F, you'll need to add another 3/4 ounce of sugar. While that might not seem like a lot, it is... More important, though, you're going to have more off flavors that will need to age out of the brew (hopefully)... I've never fermented at even close to 80F before, so I'm not even sure how long it's going to need to age to become good...

Next brew, use a yeast where you can actually obtain information like what it's fermentation temperature should be, what it will give you for different fermentation temperature ranges, etc... This isn't like making bread where you want it warm...

We, typically, don't add more yeast when priming... At most, you'll grab a little of the yeast cake as you rack into the bottling bucket. That is, if it's been on the yeast for over a month and has really flocculated out. For BIG brews, that you've aged on different flavor elements, if you racked well, you've left the original yeast behind (or the vast majority of it)... I bottled my old ale last night that was on oak chips for over 5 weeks. I added a packet of EC-1118 yeast since I had racked off of the original yeast long enough ago, and there really wasn't any in the corny I was aging in...

Of course, you'll gain a lot more info if you read through threads posted about all of these things before you start your next brew... One last thing I will mention... Yeast selection should be considered VERY important if not more so than virtually any other ingredient you put into your brew. Identical recipes with different yeasts will produce very different brews. Just as fermenting at different temperatures (with identical yeasts) will produce different brews...

 

[wildwest450]

Pitched at 90f, and fermenting in the 80's, that's gonna be some off flavored delights in that beer.


_

 

[Golddiggie]

Pitched at 90f, and fermenting in the 80's, that's gonna be some off flavored delights in that beer.


_

LMAO!!! BRILLIANT to boot... :rockin:

 

[skultch]

Edited for brevity. Reminds of another 1st post!

Nice. I like my beer like I like my women. Freaky!

 

[skultch]

Fermenting as HOT as you are, chances are it will need more time to get rid of off flavors.

I was not expecting / informed of this. Oh well. My brewing mentor is a high turnover brewer. He's in it to save money because he drinks upwards of 3 gallons a week, all by himself. He likes high temps for the speed and he also likes relatively flat beer. Not me. At this point, I just love learning all this stuff, and I can't get enough delicious and new beers. Once I get my process dialed in, I plan on experimenting quite a bit. I have some alpine pine trees in my yard that smell like they would go very well in an IPA. I also have access to a near unlimited supply of my second favorite mind-altering substance, so I'll probably infuse that in some vodka or something and spike a batch or two.

As of now, I won't even touch my current brew until 3 weeks. I wish I could get Eddie Fitz in Colorado to compare, but maybe I'll just use the Black Butte.

Wow, someone could have a lot of fun editing this post.

 

[Golddiggie]

Brewing to keep yourself F'd up and brewing because you want to make something really good are usually not even in the same country, let alone world... If he's going through 3 GALLONS a week, he's going for volume and probably couldn't care less about having off flavors in the brew. Especially since you mentioned he drinks it flat (which means he's not giving it time to carbonate, or doesn't know how to rapid carbonate on gas)...

I wouldn't take any brewing advice from that person moving forward...

Just like you wouldn't take gourmet cooking advice from someone that is the cashier at McDonalds...

Find other brewers in your area that have been making really good/great brews for at least some time, and see if you can brew with them... Or at least see how THEY do it, and get the results they do...

 

[skultch]

My buddy has a keg setup and knows how to force carb; he just prefers a flatter beer. Your'e right, though. Now that I understand the basics, I'll be getting my advice elsewhere. SWMBO's boss is a home brewer and he lives near us, so I'll start there. She doesn't want to socialize with her boss, but if he knows his stuff, she'll just have to deal with it. He also has the tools I need to convert my sanke to a keggle, so that's gonna happen.

Thanks again. I'll update this thread with anything interesting on this batch. It's gonna be hard to have patience, but I'll be ok with it. I'm actually damn good at waiting on my cellared beers. Out of sight, out of mind, works for me. I need a temp controller for my carboys so I can get them out of the living room.

 

[skultch]

So, I think I might have a stuck fermentation and I wonder if I should take a reading immediately or wait a few days. As I said above, I had great fermentation the first 24 hours. Tons of krausen, 2-3 bubbles per second, and plenty of convection in the brew. At 48 hours from the start of fermentation, there was almost no activity. The krausen had dried, very few bubbles coming out of the blowoff tube, and zero convection. At that time, I replaced the blowoff tube with a 3 piece airlock. I forgot to add water or sanitizer to the airlock for 24 hours, but even if air could have gotten in, I assume there is at least 4% abv by then, and I should be relatively safe. Am I wrong?

Is it likely that my high initial temps were too high and they resulted in killing many of the yeast cells? Should I hydro test tonight or wait a while?

I used the 90 degree wort as the dry yeast starter and stirred it with a sanitized spoon. I added the wort to the fermenter with my small siphon tube through a sieve in the funnel (Midwest kit). I seemed to get very good aeration out of that process. I used yeast nutrient, Irish Moss, and gypsum in the recipe. Could they have accelerated the process of yeast falling? Should I agitate the yeast cake?

I guess there could still be fermentation going on, just very slow and hard to detect, but I need an expert opinion on that.

Since I don't have any home brew to drink and relax, I'll have to settle for some Avery bombers.

 

[skultch]

Bump for some very appreciated advice.

 

[theguy]

So if i read the thread correctly you made your first batch on Monday Feb 21st. I usually wait at least 2 weeks until I take the first gravity ready to gauge the progress of the fermentation. Once you reach your targe gravity you are ready to bottle. I also noticed that you are fermenting at a relatively high temp (around 80 degrees). You may want to try and move the fermenter to an area where you have temperatures of 70 or lower. As the others mentioned you may get some off flavors on this batch, so don't be discouraged if the taste isn't ideal. I had some off flavors in my first batch, but I will never forget how much I liked it! Good luck!

 

[skultch]

I also noticed that you are fermenting at a relatively high temp (around 80 degrees). You may want to try and move the fermenter to an area where you have temperatures of 70 or lower.

It gradually cooled down to the ambient room temp of 65, but yes it started high. I'm not so worried about the off flavors as I plan on waiting at least 3 weeks to bottle, regardless of my gravity readings. I just want to make sure that there isn't something I should be addressing right away. I guess if it is stuck, it won't hurt to wait a few days to find out. I don't know, that's a barely educated guess. I hope I can unstick it some way on Tuesday if necessary and that waiting until then doesn't mess it up.

Anyway, I'm about to drink some Lost Abbey and Arrogant Bastard tonight, so I'm happy.

 

[Golddiggie]

Depending on the off flavors the hot fermentation produced, you may need significantly longer than 3 weeks to get rid of them... If you can get rid of all of them that is...

 

[mfraier]

The next batch you do there are a few things that would help out the finished product.

1. Use an ice bath in the sink or other tub to cool the wort down as fast as you can after boiling before adding it to primary.

2. Be patient.

3. Keep in mind that the ambient air temp of the room and fermentation temp are two completely different things. For most ales you want to stay in the mid 60's FERMENTATION temp. The higher that temp is the more off flavors you might get.

It takes a couple of bathces to get everything down in the process......don't give up.

 

[skultch]

Just took a reading.

DELICIOUS!!! It's probably a little hoppy for the SWMBO, but I love it. No off flavors. I've heard around that the Mutton's dry yeast does well with high ferm temps.

1.022 should be 1.016 - 1.018

Gonna give it another week before taking another reading. If it doesn't move, I'll bottle.