1056 vs. 1098

[AndMan3030]

I will be brewing an IPA this weekend. I am going to ferment 6 gallons with 1056, and 6 gallons with 1098. I already have healthy starters going for both strains. My plan is to use the yeast cakes from both fermenters in 2 weeks. 1056 for a double IPA, and 1098 for an English Barleywine. Any thoughts here? Does anyone have experiance with 1098? what differences should I expect between the two IPA's I brew this weekend? Thanks!



ipe:

 

[kanzimonson]

A couple thoughts:

1) A lot of people avoid reusing yeast from IPAs because the high bitterness inhibits the growth. Also IPAs are generally higher in alcohol, which also isn't ideal for repitching. Your second generation may not be the high quality that you need. Especially for those big beers you plan on making that really need optimum yeast to ensure a complete fermentation.

2) If you do ignore the above and end up reusing the yeast, for the love of god do your beer a favor and don't pitch onto the entire yeast cake.

 

[AndMan3030]

My first batch which will be fermenting in the two different 6.5 gallon carboys will have an O.G. of 1.072 - 1.075. This should not be high enough to mutate the yeast. if my next batches are 1.082 - 1.085 for the IIPA and 1.112 - 1.114 for the Barleywine, I shouldn't worry about overpitching yeast should I?? I have used entire yeast cakes before on lower gravity beers, and been fine. Should I really be concerned about 'pitching the entire yeast cake' ?? Thoughts??

 

[kanzimonson]

Yeastcalc.com estimates that after your IPA you'll have about 1.1 trillion yeast cells in the fermentor.

For 5.5gal of a 1.085 beer you need 319 billion yeast cells.
For 5.5gal of a 1.115 beer you need 420 billion yeast cells.

So using rough numbers you'll be at least double pitching your beer if not triple. I might be okay with increasing the barleywine pitch by 10-20% but not 100%.

As for the alcohol, assuming you get 75% attenuation then your IPA will be around 7.5% alcohol. Most people put an upper limit on their harvested yeast around 5-6%. Combine the higher alcohol with the high IBU and you're not giving your yeast the best chances.

Take a look at all the stuck fermentation posts for high alcohol beers on this forum and ask yourself if saving a few bucks on yeast is worth dealing with that.

 

[AndMan3030]

Wow, thanks a lot. so looks like im gonna scrap the idea of re-using the yeast entirely. any experiance with the flavor profiel of 1.098?

 

[AndMan3030]

If this is correct, when would it be OK to rack a fresh brew directly onto an active yeast-cake??

 

[kanzimonson]

If this is correct, when would it be OK to rack a fresh brew directly onto an active yeast-cake??

Not trying to be a jerk with this answer, but it would be OK to pitch onto a yeast cake when you need that much yeast!

So if you were brewing a double batch of your barleywine you would need 840 billion cells, so I'd say pitching 11gal of 1.115 barleywine on top of 1 trillion cells would be pretty good. That's assuming that the 1trillion cells had a good fermentation, not too high alcohol or IBUs, plenty of O2 and nutrients at the start, and haven't been sitting for too long at the bottom of a beer (maybe no more than 3 weeks or so?).

Of course, producing 11gal of barleywine might be a hassle in itself so I would personally rather dump out half of the yeast cake, brew 5.5gal, and call it good to pitch. Again, this is assuming the yeast cake is optimally healthy.

As for 1098, I don't have any experience with this yeast but I've used its "cousin" 1968 a lot. 1968 is like a less attenuative version of 1098. I recommend pitching around 62 degrees and letting slowly rise to 68 degrees. As fermentation slows, make sure you get some extra heat in there to encourage full attenuation. That's a pretty common problem with British yeasts (especially 1968). Give it a try, lots of people love 1098 and it's supposed to be close to what Stone and Firestone Walker use.

 

[AndMan3030]

No offense taken at all. brewing a double-batch of Barleywine is definitely exceeding my capacity. Interesting you should mention Firestone Walker, I have a clone recipe for their "Double Jack Imperial IPA" which does call for Brithish Ale yeast. maybe I will split my yeast cake into two fermenter's Using one for the Double Jack, and the other for the Barleywine.

Thanks for the help!

 

[kanzimonson]

Yeah, my first barleywine was way above my ability... and what do you know, it didn't turn out that great! Missed my target OG, pitched onto a yeast cake that was not a good choice for flavor, terrible care during fermentation, racking too much, too much oxidation, etc.

I think you could definitely reuse the yeast you have, but consider making something more like a pale ale or other 5-6% beer. You'll be left with much healthier yeast at the end of it all.

Also, for making a big barleywine, consider pitching a small active starter of a highly-attenuative neutrally-flavored yeast when the fermentation is about 50-66% complete. It really helps to get some extra yeast in there. Especially if you're going to add plain sugar to boost the OG.