10 Sour Questions

[wbuffness]

1. What temperature is best for the different bacteria at each fermenting stage of sours? As I understand (Information taken from a chart originally published in the Journal of the Institute of Brewing 83, pp.356-360 (1976) (and these are all approximations)):

Months 1-2: Entero bacteria, Kl. Apiculata & Saccharomyces sp.

Months 2-4: Saccharomyces sp.

Months 4-9: Saccharomyces sp. & Pediococcus sp.

Months 9+: Pediococcus sp & Brettanomyces sp.

2. I live in Wisconsin, my house is 68 degrees in the winter and can get up to 80 in the summer. Is that OK? Can I move the fermenter to the basement during the warm months? I read that it’s not wise to move when it forms the pellicle?

3. How do I make sure my wort has enough dextrins and unconverted starch for fermentation if I use a dry or liquid malt extract?

4. Should I pitch some calcium carbonate when I pitch the yeast?

5. Should I pitch some dried brewers yeast or any other yeast in particular when I pitch ECY20 or will the ECY20 take care of itself and both ferment the wort and add the sourness I am looking for?

6. Can you freeze a wild yeast culture (ECY20 in particular)? For how long?

7. Can you propagate wild yeast (ECY20 in particular) as you would normal ale yeast?

8. I read that it’s best not to rerack the beer because there are benefits to keeping it on the yeast cake?

9. Is there anything different with adding oak cubes to a sour versus adding them to a normal beer other than soaking them in a couple changes of boiling water? If so, please explain?

10. Thanks for your time and information!

 

[Calder]

Way too many questions.

1 - I don't know, but many of these are working together, so there probably is not a perfect temp.

2 - 68 to 80 is ok. Provided there is no major source of O2, breaking the pellicle should not be a problem.

3 - you are probably ok with just extract. They have alot of unfermentable sugars. You could add 5% maltodextrin.

4 - no

5 - ECY20 should have some sacc in it. Check. Use a Belgian yeast, the esters they produce seem to be part pf the character of the beer.

6 - I don't know if they freeze. Why bother, they keep well in beer and increase in population at the same time. Store in some wort with an airlock, it will keep for a year or longer.

7 - yes and no. A starter will increase the sacc yeast, and not the bugs ...... they will reproduce much slower. Keep the starter for 6 months and a lot of the sacc will die and the bugs will doimate.

8 - I usually rack after a week. There is still a lot of yeast in suspension, but when the ferment slows, trub drops, so racking keeps a lot of the yeast while leaving behind the trub.

9 - sours do not normally have oak. I use old oak in mine, as it supposedly provides food for the brett and a place for the bugs to infest. I pass the same oak from brew to brew.

10 - that is not a question.

 

[wbuffness]

Thanks a bunch for the answers!

So for sours I should always pitch a Belgian yeast and then pitch the ECY or other bugs after 1 week when I rerack?

 

[Rugrad02]

So for sours I should always pitch a Belgian yeast and then pitch the ECY or other bugs after 1 week when I rerack?

Not necessarily. ECY 20 is a mix of ECY yeasts including ECY 01 and 02, both of which contain Sach. strains. There is no need to add any other yeast to the mix. If using ECY 20, just pitch it once the wort is cooled and let it rock and roll for 1+ years. It is not necessary to add a Belgian strain when using this and some other sour mix/blend from say Wyeast or White Labs because it already contain Belgian Sach.

Also, if you decide later on to try an American sour or your own sour style using Lacto or another sour yeast, try one of the West Coast strains in conjunction with the sour bugs. You may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[BrasseurGeorges]

1/2. Just keep it in the basement for a cooler and more consistent temperature.

3. At minimum I'd add maltodextrin, a mini mash to add starches and long chain sugars would be better, BIAB all grain best given the setup I assume you have. All you would need is a bag.

4. No. You are talking about extract, the mash has already been done for you. Those minerals remain in the extract along with the sugars. That being the case, you could use distilled or RO water, in fact some may recommend it. So many more things to do before you start talking about water adjustments...

5. Just pitch the ECY20.

6/7. I would do neither. You can always rack off primary and harvest the yeast etc. that's settled out (though the proportions have changed) and pull bugs from secondary and add to another batch if you like the way it's developing.

8. I wouldn't call it better or worse so much as different, so it depends what you're going for. I always rack off the yeast that's settled out in primary to secondary.

9. The main difference is that in a sour you typically aren't looking for much oak character. I boil in water for 10 minutes to sterilize and strip character, then soak in wine for at least a couple weeks so the alcohol can strip additional character. Then the oak serves as host to the organisms and may contribute minor, rather than overpowering, character over time.