Did 2 extracts and 2 all-grains...the 2 extracts and 1 all grain are terrible...I live in SoCal and temps are crazy high this time of the year, high 90's and I was fermentating in my closet. Came out tasting like nail polish remover. Just bought a dedicated fermintation fridge and a temp controller so i was really exited about my batch today. It's an all grain IPA Sculpin clone i got from MoreBeer. Did a batch sparge for the first time since everyone told me i was wasting time fly sparging...I must of done something wrong. Temps were on the spot but my estimated pre boil OG of 1.054 came in at 1.034. I put my ingredients in BeerSmith and hit my preboil volume numbers on the dot so I don't understand what happened. First runnings were good and dark. When I put in sparge water for second runnings I stirred, let it sit for 10 min, recycled until it was clear and hit 7 gallons on the mark so I was pretty excited i nailed it but missed OG..I did a 90 min boil to gettOG up to 1.056 but now i've only got 4.5 gallons in fermenter when I was shooting for 5.5. I chilled down to 78 in an hour and put in my fermentor and threw it in my fridge waiting to get temp down to a pitching temp of around 70. My water temp out of my outdoor hose was 72 so no way im hitting that with just an immersion chiller. Going to pitch yeast tonight hopefully. I finally have a means to control my fermentation temp but now i've got a really high IBU beer thats going to be REALLY high with a gallon less than what I planned. I bought 4 packs of WLP001 yeast since all the calcs I used estimated I would need 3 1/2 and I didn't mind spending the cash to get my first good batch but now I'm going to only pitch 2 1/2 i'm guessing. Getting frustrated. Tips/Advise would be great.
0/4 brewing
- Thread starter MrLux
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My advise... Keep trying! It's my opinion that it is more important to hit numbers than it is to hit volume. Choose a method that you think you want to use, then stick with it for a while to get a grasp on your system. I batch sparge as well. But I do two sparges. I almost always get +/- 80% effeciency.
Knowing your system will allow you to make the appropriate changes during the brewday.
What I did when I started all grain was to repeat the same recipe a few times. I think I brewed Jamil's Blonde ale 4 times in a row.
Also, Fly sparging isn't wasting your time, it's just a different way of doing things. If it's more comfortable for you, then that's the way you should do it.
Knowing your system will allow you to make the appropriate changes during the brewday.
What I did when I started all grain was to repeat the same recipe a few times. I think I brewed Jamil's Blonde ale 4 times in a row.
Also, Fly sparging isn't wasting your time, it's just a different way of doing things. If it's more comfortable for you, then that's the way you should do it.
Keep it up. I admire your persistence. You said it yourself and kudos for recognizing it.. Fermentation temp is key. It will ruin a batch quickly. Happened to me in one of my first few batches, tasted like bubble gum/pina colada. That’s a big step to consistently good beer. Question about your OG, Did you mix the wort before taking the sample and more importantly did you chill the sample to room temp? That could affect your sample reading significantly. Honestly I wouldn’t worry too much. As long as you’re keeping the ferm temp under control you should still have good beer; maybe a tad more bitter and a tad less strong than you anticipated.
The low pre-boil SG was not due to the batch sparge. At the most, a batch sparge will come in at about 5 percentage points lower lauter efficiency than a fly sparge. More likely that your conversion efficiency was lower than it should have been. You can measure your conversion efficiency by measuring the SG of the wort in the mash (method here.) If your conversion efficiency is low after 60 minutes, you can extend your mash to get more conversion. You need to stir before taking the sample, and if you have a false bottom, you should vorlauf after stirring. If you have consistent conversion efficiency issues, you should look into getting a mill so that you can crush finer.
Brew on
Brew on
I didn't mix the wort or chill the sample...I put the hydrometer right in the pot...If i needed to chill, that may be what I did wrong and I boiled down unnecessarily.
you can extend your mash to get more conversion. You need to stir before taking the sample, and if you have a false bottom, you should vorlauf after stirring.
Brew on
I have a false botton, did do a vorlauf, but I didn't stir it. Thanks for the advise. I'll use that efficiency calc and see where I'm at. Looks like I over thought it and may of boiled down more than I needed. Thanks for the info!!
MaryB
Well-Known Member
OG is taken AFTER you boil. Pre boil hydrometer readings can give you an idea of conversion efficiency but I skip it and go for overall brew house efficiency using the post boil OG to calculate it.
If this doesn't turn out how I want, ill def take that advise. I love this beer which is why I wanted to try and make it. Thanks for all the good info! Learning more than I can absorb on this website!
Definitely! If using a hydrometer its got to be chilled to room temp or it will throw off the SG by quite a bit! You might have been much more on target than you think. I wouldnt worrry too much about the longer boil, it shouldnt ruin your beer. If you want to take SG readings without chilling perhaps look into a refractometer on Amazon with ATC (auto temp control) for around 25-30 bucks.. just note that if you use a refractometer to measure SG of fermenting wort you need to use a conversion calculation since alcohol in the wort throws odd the numbers-a problem unique to refractometers
Welp...thats good to know! May of over thought this one as it was only my 2nd all grain brew. Saw the tab in beersmith that said to measure it and panicked when it didn't read anywhere close to the estimate.
You can put together an ice water recirculator for your IC. Here's one thread on the subject. With your warm tap water in SoCal, coupled with the fact that water is kind of scarce there, that might be something to help get temps down quickly without a lot of waste.
And don't give up on your brews. If you were a coach and your team was 0/4, you wouldn't quit the season, right? Sucks to have some bad brews right out of the gate, but you'll get up to speed before you know it.
And don't give up on your brews. If you were a coach and your team was 0/4, you wouldn't quit the season, right? Sucks to have some bad brews right out of the gate, but you'll get up to speed before you know it.
The problem with only looking at brewhouse efficiency is that it doesn't give you the information you need to diagnose which part of the process is causing your low efficiency.
Brewhouse efficiency = Conversion efficiency * Lauter efficiency * Fermenter volume / Post-boil volume
If you want to fix your efficiency, you need to know if it's a conversion issue, lauter issue, or you're losing too much volume between your BK and fermenter.In OP's case, some additional analysis using my mash simulator, shows conversion efficiency in the low 60's%.
Brew on
Are you sure you got an accurate reading? You need a test jar so you can read at eye level. Yes you need to chill to get an accurate reading. Or use a hydrometer temperature adjustment calculator.
You also need to stir the combined first runnings and sparged wort aggressively to be sure that you have uniform SG throughout. It takes much more stirring than you think it should. There is some indication that non-uniform SG in the BK may have contributed to OP''s issue, but it's not the entire problem.
To answer the question "What indication?":
Boiling does not remove any extract (mostly sugar) from the wort, only water. So the amount of extract must be the same before and after the boil (unless sugar or extract were added to the boil.) One measure of the amount of extract is: Volume * (SG - 1), or if you like to use "Points": Volume * (SG - 1) * 1000. So, if the pre-boil and post-boil SG and volume measurements are all accurate, then the following equation must hold:
Pre-boil Volume * (Pre-boil SG - 1) = Post-boil Volume * (Post-boil SG - 1)
In OP's case we have:7 gal * (1.034 - 1) ≠ 4.5 gal * (1.056 - 1), or
0.238 ≠ 0.252
This indicates that the pre-boil SG reading was likely erroneously low, either due to poor mixing and/or reading too warm a sample. Since the 4.5 gal is a fermenter volume, the post-boil volume could have been higher (if trub was left in the BK.) If that is the case then the error in the pre-boil SG was even larger. Post-boil SG readings are usually more reliable than pre-boil readings, since boiling does an excellent job of homogenizing the wort.0.238 ≠ 0.252
Brew on
MaryB
Well-Known Member
I am averaging 85% so I don't bother digging deeper!
The problem with only looking at brewhouse efficiency is that it doesn't give you the information you need to diagnose which part of the process is causing your low efficiency.Brewhouse efficiency = Conversion efficiency * Lauter efficiency * Fermenter volume / Post-boil volumeIf you want to fix your efficiency, you need to know if it's a conversion issue, lauter issue, or you're losing too much volume between your BK and fermenter.
In OP's case, some additional analysis using my mash simulator, shows conversion efficiency in the low 60's%.
Brew on
I agree, if you're not having problems, no need to go looking for problems. But, there is no shortage of threads about "Why is my efficiency bad?" For those brewers, knowing which part of the process isn't performing is key to fixing the problem, and for that you need to be able to determine the efficiency of each important step.
Brew on ;mug:
SoCal-Doug
Well-Known Member
Don't sweat the temps. I'm in the Inland Empire and you are correct, summer is not ending 
Today we high winds and fires all over (again).
Brew a basic Saison using WY3711. Chuck the fermenter in the garage and let it run. It will turn out great!
Another option, a nice 50/50 or 60/40 heffy using WY3068. Some people will scream about bubble gum or banana but I've brewed two batches this summer without either (fermented in the mid 80's). Both turned out great and i'm prepping for another batch in the next week or so.
There are always options
Today we high winds and fires all over (again).Brew a basic Saison using WY3711. Chuck the fermenter in the garage and let it run. It will turn out great!
Another option, a nice 50/50 or 60/40 heffy using WY3068. Some people will scream about bubble gum or banana but I've brewed two batches this summer without either (fermented in the mid 80's). Both turned out great and i'm prepping for another batch in the next week or so.
There are always options
I'm also in the IE! I'll try one of those recipes
SoCal-Doug
Well-Known Member
Here ya go... The joint in Riverside normally has all the stuff for this. If you ever drive through Norco, you are welcome to taste it. Adjust it as you wish. The next time I brew this, i'm going to proportionally adjust it to get into the mid/high 5's ABV, now that I have a baseline on the yeast potential.
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.008 (nope, beersmith lies)
Color: 8.8 SRM
ABV: 6.1 (closer to 7 with WY3711)
80% Whatever 2-row base malt you like (I've used Digemans Pilsner and Crisp MO)
5.3% Carapils
5.3% Munich I
5.3% Vienna Malt
4% Special B
Saaz to 19 IBU 60 min
Citra to 5 IBU 6 min
Wyeast Labs #3711 with 1L starter
Mash at 148-149 for 75 min
Raise to 168
Sparge
Boil for 60 min
Ferment temp: It just doesn't matter. I've gone mid 90's. It will be done in a week and probably less
Crash it, keg it, drink it (it does change a little after a week in the keg, not better or worse, just different)
Be forewarned, 3711 can ferment an old gym shirt. Some claim it can ferment distilled water. Plan on your FG being below 1.004 (some people hit 0.998). It's a beast.
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.008 (nope, beersmith lies)
Color: 8.8 SRM
ABV: 6.1 (closer to 7 with WY3711)
80% Whatever 2-row base malt you like (I've used Digemans Pilsner and Crisp MO)
5.3% Carapils
5.3% Munich I
5.3% Vienna Malt
4% Special B
Saaz to 19 IBU 60 min
Citra to 5 IBU 6 min
Wyeast Labs #3711 with 1L starter
Mash at 148-149 for 75 min
Raise to 168
Sparge
Boil for 60 min
Ferment temp: It just doesn't matter. I've gone mid 90's. It will be done in a week and probably less
Crash it, keg it, drink it (it does change a little after a week in the keg, not better or worse, just different)
Be forewarned, 3711 can ferment an old gym shirt. Some claim it can ferment distilled water. Plan on your FG being below 1.004 (some people hit 0.998). It's a beast.
Thanks for all the advise...I'm now 1/5. Finally made an awesome beer that I ended up only keeping half of since the rest was drank by neighbors and co-workers. I made a bunch of changes, not sure which ones were the problems but i'm going to stick with it whether it was it or not.
1. I brewed in my back yard, not garage. My garage is a storage unit and wood working shop so I switched it up. I also ran a fan in there since it was super hot which probably didn't help looking back at it.
2. I excessively sanitized with a spray bottle.
3. I bought a fermintation fridge and temperature controller.SoCal temps were over 100 when I started and I just kept it in a downstairs closet. Now I'm precisely keeping temps where they need to be.
4. I didn't drink while brewing..........until flame out.....which significantly improved my note keeping.
5. I bought a bunch of books, binge read them, retained 1% of the information.
6. I aerated my wort before pitching the yeast with a fish tank pump and stone for about 30 min.
Making another batch this weekend with high hopes. Thanks again.
1. I brewed in my back yard, not garage. My garage is a storage unit and wood working shop so I switched it up. I also ran a fan in there since it was super hot which probably didn't help looking back at it.
2. I excessively sanitized with a spray bottle.
3. I bought a fermintation fridge and temperature controller.SoCal temps were over 100 when I started and I just kept it in a downstairs closet. Now I'm precisely keeping temps where they need to be.
4. I didn't drink while brewing..........until flame out.....which significantly improved my note keeping.
5. I bought a bunch of books, binge read them, retained 1% of the information.
6. I aerated my wort before pitching the yeast with a fish tank pump and stone for about 30 min.
Making another batch this weekend with high hopes. Thanks again.
SoCal-Doug
Well-Known Member
Awesome changes! #4 is the winner.
I had to giggle at the fridge purchase. Here we went through a nuclear summer and now the temps around the I.E. are perfect. I split a 10 gallon batch of Wit into two fermenters on Sunday (trying different yeasts) and they have been solid 74 to 76 sitting on my workbench in the garage
Binge away in the books, it will all make more sense and be way more retainable over time. Applying what you learn to future brews will lock it into the brain cells, and make room for more binging.
I've been brewing on and off for 20 years. I jump on the forums or brew with some friends and am always learning something new or clarifying something I was fuzzy on before. It's awesome.
I had to giggle at the fridge purchase. Here we went through a nuclear summer and now the temps around the I.E. are perfect. I split a 10 gallon batch of Wit into two fermenters on Sunday (trying different yeasts) and they have been solid 74 to 76 sitting on my workbench in the garage
Binge away in the books, it will all make more sense and be way more retainable over time. Applying what you learn to future brews will lock it into the brain cells, and make room for more binging.
I've been brewing on and off for 20 years. I jump on the forums or brew with some friends and am always learning something new or clarifying something I was fuzzy on before. It's awesome.
NoIguanaForZ
Well-Known Member
Yeah, brewing's gonna be easier now that we're out of Summer (after Summer and Summer) and into Half-Assed Fall/Spring Kinda Thing.
Also, did I read correctly that you dropped a hydrometer into a pot that had just had runoff lautered into it? I think they're constructed of relatively shock-resistant glass but you don't wanna do that, for more immediate reasons than accuracy.
Also, did I read correctly that you dropped a hydrometer into a pot that had just had runoff lautered into it? I think they're constructed of relatively shock-resistant glass but you don't wanna do that, for more immediate reasons than accuracy.
SoCal-Doug
Well-Known Member
Some hydrometers are lab grade borosilicate glass and will handle the temperature shock. Don't trust the offshore cheapo's.
Better yet, just buy a refractometer. Grab a few drops (literally) of what you want to measure and let it cool for a minute before reading.
Better yet, just buy a refractometer. Grab a few drops (literally) of what you want to measure and let it cool for a minute before reading.
planetscott
Well-Known Member
I read through all of this and never saw a mention of the quality of crush on the grain.
Was the grain milled for you, or did you mill it yourself? I've found that precrushed grain from large home brew spots tend to be under milled. I bought my own mill after getting a batch of grain where one out of three kernals were actually crushed.
Was the grain milled for you, or did you mill it yourself? I've found that precrushed grain from large home brew spots tend to be under milled. I bought my own mill after getting a batch of grain where one out of three kernals were actually crushed.
mgortel
Well-Known Member
First of all getting a fermentation chamber with temp control to lower your temps is key....which you have done!
As far as OG.....this happened to me when I started brewing one time and the guys on here helped me immediately realize my "error".
After you sparge and before taking your OG reading you need to gently stir the wort in the kettle.....the wort will stratify from the first and second runnings....leaving the lower OG stuff on top...and give you a FALSE OG reading...you need to mix it up.
I got live feedback during my brew and when I stirred it and remeasured it was spot on.
SO most likely your OG was pretty close.
As far as OG.....this happened to me when I started brewing one time and the guys on here helped me immediately realize my "error".
After you sparge and before taking your OG reading you need to gently stir the wort in the kettle.....the wort will stratify from the first and second runnings....leaving the lower OG stuff on top...and give you a FALSE OG reading...you need to mix it up.
I got live feedback during my brew and when I stirred it and remeasured it was spot on.
SO most likely your OG was pretty close.
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