Anyone have this or make one similar to Vander Mill?

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aviator24

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I have been drinking the Vander Mill Ciders for a while now. I wanted to try and clone this cider with Cinnamon, Pecan and Vanilla. It is very dry and delicious in commercial form. I know from my beer making I can get the cinnamon sticks and vanilla beans at my local hbs but have not a clue about the pecan? Also, would these be added to a secondary or in the keg after using the Potassium Sorbate to kill off the yeast?

vander mill.jpg
 
I have been drinking the Vander Mill Ciders for a while now. I wanted to try and clone this cider with Cinnamon, Pecan and Vanilla. It is very dry and delicious in commercial form. I know from my beer making I can get the cinnamon sticks and vanilla beans at my local hbs but have not a clue about the pecan? Also, would these be added to a secondary or in the keg after using the Potassium Sorbate to kill off the yeast?

This cider is my wife's favorite cider, and I am working on a clone-ish recipe for it. I'm currently on version 2.0 of this. This is what I have brewed so far.

Make a 5 gallon batch of base cider. I use cheap Aldi Brand apple juice and WLP002. Base is 1.050 and will get be in the 6.5%-7.0% ballpark, depending on how the ferment goes. I ferment at about 65 degrees, low end for the yeast. It's a slow ferment, so expect a month or two in primary before it clears.

In the meantime, take 1 lb of halved pecans and crush them. I got them from Aldi as well, the indeegients said "pecans" and that was it. Put them in the oven at the lowest setting, about 270, for 5 minutes to get some oils to extract and pat out any oils. No longer, because it will start to cook your pecans.

In a saucepan, I boiled up a cup of water, a cup of sugar, and some vanilla extract. I'll stir the sugar in until dissolved. Add the crushed pecans to the sugar water and stir them in. I laid them on a cookie sheet to dry them out in the oven, again, low setting for about 30 minutes. The smell of this is the aroma that you will get in your cider. It is heaven. Really, you can find any candied pecan recipe and use that to find out what you like in your VM inspired cider, as long as it doesn't use fats like butter or oils.

I keg my ciders, so I will sorbate, sulfute, and cold crash my yeast in order to backsweeten. I transfer to the keg and "dry hop" the pecans in a sanitized paint strainer bag. I left the bag in until the keg kicked, but only a few days are necessary, like dry hopping a beer. The sugars from the candied pecans do all my backsweetening. After adding the bag, it may get cloudy from the pecan fragments.after a few days, it clears out. You can add gelatin at kegging in order to drop and fine particles out of suspension.

My next go will be the same process, but as you stated there is some cinnamon presence in the cider, so I'll be adding some cinnamon to the candied pecans. I've also toyed with the idea of dashes of nutmeg in this next go, but I think I want to see how the cinnamon stands out in the cider before I get all crazy.

It's not a true clone, VM is 6.8%, backsweetened with beet sugars, and their Cider in MI is pretty tight lipped about their apple blends and candied pecan process. In this case, trial and error is going to get me close, which is all that matters.

The cider came out great, and it didn't last long. It was a crowd favorite in the summer months, and I'm kicking myself for not getting more batches started sooner.

What are your thoughts? Any tweaks or glaring inconsistencies that you notice in the recipe or process that could get me closer?
 
This cider is my wife's favorite cider, and I am working on a clone-ish recipe for it. I'm currently on version 2.0 of this. This is what I have brewed so far.

Make a 5 gallon batch of base cider. I use cheap Aldi Brand apple juice and WLP002. Base is 1.050 and will get be in the 6.5%-7.0% ballpark, depending on how the ferment goes. I ferment at about 65 degrees, low end for the yeast. It's a slow ferment, so expect a month or two in primary before it clears.

In the meantime, take 1 lb of halved pecans and crush them. I got them from Aldi as well, the indeegients said "pecans" and that was it. Put them in the oven at the lowest setting, about 270, for 5 minutes to get some oils to extract and pat out any oils. No longer, because it will start to cook your pecans.

In a saucepan, I boiled up a cup of water, a cup of sugar, and some vanilla extract. I'll stir the sugar in until dissolved. Add the crushed pecans to the sugar water and stir them in. I laid them on a cookie sheet to dry them out in the oven, again, low setting for about 30 minutes. The smell of this is the aroma that you will get in your cider. It is heaven. Really, you can find any candied pecan recipe and use that to find out what you like in your VM inspired cider, as long as it doesn't use fats like butter or oils.

I keg my ciders, so I will sorbate, sulfute, and cold crash my yeast in order to backsweeten. I transfer to the keg and "dry hop" the pecans in a sanitized paint strainer bag. I left the bag in until the keg kicked, but only a few days are necessary, like dry hopping a beer. The sugars from the candied pecans do all my backsweetening. After adding the bag, it may get cloudy from the pecan fragments.after a few days, it clears out. You can add gelatin at kegging in order to drop and fine particles out of suspension.

My next go will be the same process, but as you stated there is some cinnamon presence in the cider, so I'll be adding some cinnamon to the candied pecans. I've also toyed with the idea of dashes of nutmeg in this next go, but I think I want to see how the cinnamon stands out in the cider before I get all crazy.

It's not a true clone, VM is 6.8%, backsweetened with beet sugars, and their Cider in MI is pretty tight lipped about their apple blends and candied pecan process. In this case, trial and error is going to get me close, which is all that matters.

The cider came out great, and it didn't last long. It was a crowd favorite in the summer months, and I'm kicking myself for not getting more batches started sooner.

What are your thoughts? Any tweaks or glaring inconsistencies that you notice in the recipe or process that could get me closer?

I have a couple 5 gallon batches fermenting and I too keg. I will be using your recipe with the addition of some cinnamon sticks in the keg inside a hop bag. I should have some results in a week or so. Thank you for the details!
 
I have a couple 5 gallon batches fermenting and I too keg. I will be using your recipe with the addition of some cinnamon sticks in the keg inside a hop bag. I should have some results in a week or so. Thank you for the details!

Let me know how it turns out. I'm always open for tweaks and advice.

My wife can't get enough of the stuff. At $10 per 4 pack, it adds up quick.
 
It is expensive! I cannot find it for $10 a 4 pack unless it is on sale, and that is rare. Usually it is $12. My 2 5 gallons that are fermenting are with cheap Sams apple juice I buy for $25 for 10 gallons. I forgot to mention I have been adding 2 pounds of brown sugar to each batch to raise the ABV. It is prolly too much but I will let you know how it turns out.
I can share the SG readings when I get home. I will probably be kegging one on Saturday as the SG was getting pretty close to 1.000 last time I checked it.
This is going to be my 3rd and 4th batch of cider. Not sure why I waited so long to try hard cider? My results so far have been super tasty, and cost effective!
 
It is expensive! I cannot find it for $10 a 4 pack unless it is on sale, and that is rare. Usually it is $12. My 2 5 gallons that are fermenting are with cheap Sams apple juice I buy for $25 for 10 gallons. I forgot to mention I have been adding 2 pounds of brown sugar to each batch to raise the ABV. It is prolly too much but I will let you know how it turns out.
I can share the SG readings when I get home. I will probably be kegging one on Saturday as the SG was getting pretty close to 1.000 last time I checked it.
This is going to be my 3rd and 4th batch of cider. Not sure why I waited so long to try hard cider? My results so far have been super tasty, and cost effective!

Not to mention as easy as making homemade alcohol gets! 20 minutes of prep and I'm done.

It costs me $15 to $25 dollars for 5 gallons of juice ($1.50 to $2.50, depending on organic vs the cheap stuff). It's about $8 to $12 dollars for pecans depending if they're in or out of season, and I have cinnamon and vanilla extract and sugar usually on hand, so I don't include it. So $24 to $38 dollars for 5 gallons, plus yeast (which I have harvested for a while, cost is 1 per batch, spread over time)

So, about 38 pints of homebrewed cider vs. 8 to 12 pints (depending on overall costs plus tax) of commercial. I'd say the benefits are in the wait. 3x to 4x more volume for the same cost.

Let me know how it all turns out.
 
UPDATE!
First of all, Thaymond, thank you for the detailed help here!!!!!!!
I just kegged mine and it is in the keggerator conditioning.
Some of my notes are as follows...
My starting SG was 1.062 (prolly was overkill with the 2 pounds of brown sugar)
Final SG was 1.004. I coulda and shoulda prolly let it go longer than 2 weeks but I have no patience and needed the carboy for the next debacle.
Estimated ABV is 7.61%, a bit high but what the hell, eh?
Soo in that keg is the mixture as you described above but I only used 2 cups of the pecans cuzz I was being a cheapskate. Those suckers are expensive! LOL
You are correct, that smell was amazing! I literally licked the pan. Yeah, I have no shame.
To that I added 3 cut up vanilla beans and 2 cinnamon sticks. I threw the entire mix into a hop bag and seriously wanted to eat it but in the keg it went.
I tasted it, prolly a mistake as it has not even begun to back sweeten, again, no patience.
Also added the potassium sorbate and a tbsp of Citric and Malic Acid for the hell of it, prolly ruined it, DOH!
So now onto making the next 10 gallons! And having a real Vandermill Totally Roasted Cider for now. Will keep you posted...
 
No problem. I hope the limited experience helps, but im moving in the right direction to clone, or at least an iteration of something that I like. I want to know how the 'nilla beans and cinnamon sticks turn out. The anticipation is killing me. My cider is just now starting to clear, and it has been in primary for over a month. I may keg the base tomorrow, add gelatin, sorbate and sulfite it, and put it on gas. Maybe try to drop in the bag mid week with the pecans and vanilla beans.

I left the bag in for the duration of the keg, so having the cinnamon sticks and the vanilla beans would just keep adding flavor.

Any thoughts on adding a rum soaked oak spiral? To me it just sounds like a great idea.
 
I made up a new batch of candied pecans and got great preliminary feedback. These are going to be hard to keep out of the people's mouths before it goes in the cider. Here's the adjusted recipe.

1 lb chopped pecans (aldi brand)
2 cups of packed brown sugar
2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 cup water
1 tsp vanilla extract

In 4 qt stockpot, bring sugar, vanilla, water, and cinnamon to a rolling boil. Big candy bubbles. Smells like monkey bread. Cut the heat.

Mix in 1 lb of chopped pecans. Stir in quickly and coat all pecan pieces.

On a baking sheet, lay out the candied pecans on parchment paper. Spread thin. Bake at 250 degrees for 30 minutes.

Let air cool. They go in a sanitized paint strainer bag for "dry-pecanning" the cider. Can't wait for this one to be done.
 
That new pecan recipe looks awesome, I will have to try it out. I actually bought a 2 pound bag of pecans at Sams yesterday for about $16 and plan on making some just to eat!
The flavor on the batch I have going today has changed A LOT since kegging it yesterday. The cinnamon sticks and vanilla beans are really noticeable. I had some company over today and even though it has only been a day and there is little to no carbonation, it was a hit. I think the vandermill clone is going to just get better with age if it lasts that long. I have a few new kegs on back order so this will help to allow me to age the next batches longer.
I put 10 more gallons of apple juice in the carboys to ferment yesterday so I am looking forward to making this again!
Lovin this hard cider! Gonna take a break on the cider and have a Vanilla Java Porter clone on deck for next weekend. Ever tried the BIAB? Loving that too.
Been a while since the keggerator was full!

Keg ger ate er.jpg
 
That new pecan recipe looks awesome, I will have to try it out. I actually bought a 2 pound bag of pecans at Sams yesterday for about $16 and plan on making some just to eat!
The flavor on the batch I have going today has changed A LOT since kegging it yesterday. The cinnamon sticks and vanilla beans are really noticeable. I had some company over today and even though it has only been a day and there is little to no carbonation, it was a hit. I think the vandermill clone is going to just get better with age if it lasts that long. I have a few new kegs on back order so this will help to allow me to age the next batches longer.
I put 10 more gallons of apple juice in the carboys to ferment yesterday so I am looking forward to making this again!
Lovin this hard cider! Gonna take a break on the cider and have a Vanilla Java Porter clone on deck for next weekend. Ever tried the BIAB? Loving that too.
Been a while since the keggerator was full!

It's great to hear it's a hit even without the carbonation. Try to wait until it fully carbs up, and it should be good.

I'm hoping the adjusted recipe moves closer to the VM clone. If results are like the flavor of the pecans, we're in for a treat.

I've been BIAB since I began AG brewing. My last two batches were 88% and 94% efficiency with a double crush to a powder. I set my ugly junk Corona mill to annihilate, and I do it twice.:-D It means I don't have to use as much grain in order to get the strength of brew that I'm looking for.

To me, BIAB makes sense, at least for my setup. All my stuff is DIY, even the bag. I may need to pick up a new one soon. How are to liking the Brew Bag? That's the one the LHBS has in stock.

Both the DBL Choc. Stout and the vanilla java porter sounds spectacular.
 
I will get it to carbonate this week. About all I plan on pouring is a test glass for the next few days. I try to save most of my drinking for the weekends, does not always happen though. LOL

So how many batches of the VMC (vandermill clone) do you currently have going?

I just flipped the switch to all grain via BIAB a few months ago. Been an extract brewer off and on for 20 years. Bought myself an awesome Spike Brewing 20 gallon kettle for xmas and rigged up a sweet pulley system that works awesome as I brew in the garage. The goal was to be able to do 10 gallon batches if so desired. Saturday will be my 4th biab with the VJP. I also am using a sous vide device during my biab mash to hold the temp to within .1 degree. It makes the process so simple it is silly. The Brew Bag works crazy good. It fits my kettle perfectly and the spent grains literally fall out with easy clean up. I am impressed with it all.

The dbl choc stout was my first biab. It was a 10 gallon batch and turned out pretty good for the first attempt.

biab.jpg
 
I have 1 batch going currently, but will have another going once I keg the first. I'm going to try and get the clone down first. Once I nail it, I'll post a final recipe in the recipe section, then begin variances. The more I stew on some of the variants, the more I want to make.

I'm digging the idea of a Vanilla bean and cinnamon stick "dry hop." It would continually give more flavor in the bag until it gets pulled. I also like the idea of a rum soaked oak spiral. It just sounds like the right thing to do.

BIAB is the way for me. It's cool to see others having success. There are several threads that are worth reading in the BIAB forum.
 
Day 2 "dry hop" taste test. GF said it smells like suntan lotion! The cinnamon and vanilla are getting strong. Taste is still good but not the same as the original. Will take a taste test tonight again. It is a work in progress!
 
Taste test last night was not very impressive. I think the cinnamon sticks and vanilla beans may be over kill? It is hard to taste the pecans at all. It seems as time goes on it gets further and further away from the desired clone. Kinda bummed. I will give it a taste again tonight. Considering trying to fish out the additives maybe? IDK? Might be extracts are the ticket...
 
Taste test last night was not very impressive. I think the cinnamon sticks and vanilla beans may be over kill? It is hard to taste the pecans at all. It seems as time goes on it gets further and further away from the desired clone. Kinda bummed. I will give it a taste again tonight. Considering trying to fish out the additives maybe? IDK? Might be extracts are the ticket...

Definitely pull the cinnamon and vanilla beans out of the keg. Then drop the pecans back in. Cinnamon and vanilla should fade quickly over time.
 
Man...I am the worst critic of my brews. I am sitting here having a taste and it seems to be getting better?!?!?! IDK, honestly have had worse, lol. Only been 4 days so I am gonna let it sit in the keggerator as is until maybe Sat. Brewing then so will have all my crap sterilized and can make a decision then if I need to go fish.
 
I am dropping the bag in sometime between now and Sunday. Life go in the way. It will be 6.3% and semi dry, which is how my wife likes her ciders. All sweetness will come from the candied pecans. It's been conditioning for 3 or 4 days now, so all my yeast is should be taken care of. Excited to try the new results in a few weeks.

I'm glad you like yours. This will be a regular staple in my kegerator.
 
Actually we stop there every time we are in Spring Lake. My wife and I love the place.

MarkKF, any new ciders on tap?
 
That was my visit last summer. My wife and I drove out and experienced Lake Michigan for the first time. Took a chance to visit a bunch of cideries and breweries. Beautiful area!
 
That was my visit last summer. My wife and I drove out and experienced Lake Michigan for the first time. Took a chance to visit a bunch of cideries and breweries. Beautiful area!

I should have looked for the context clues in the picture, the clothes don't say "Michigan spring" at all. I should have seen parkas. :-D.

The TR out of the tap is different than the TR in a can. I'm trying to lock in the recipe so that we can do a side by side comparison this summer when we take our trips up to MI.

It looks like Saturday is the day I'll be able to get things done with the kegs and kegerator. I still have 2 beers to keg. When I started kegging on Sunday, "Murphy's Law" kicked in. My auto siphon broke, I ran out of gas, my keg line cleaner pump failed, and I ran out of BLC, thinking I had another bottle stowed away. When picking up supplies yesterday, the guy at the LHBS said "The universe didn't want you to keg that day." Saturday will be a better day. The universe better agree.
 
Kegged on Saturday and went for a preliminary taste test today. All I can say is Oh. MY GAWD! The new roasted pecan recipe is definitely the grand prize winner. I'm going to let this condition for a few more weeks to carbonate. It is going to be hard to keep my hands off of it, but sweet baby jesus, it is something special. I will probably be posting in the cider recipe forum once I get the recipe locked in. But this is really darn close.
 
To give an idea on how long it takes to finish a keg in this house, my wife just kicked the keg earlier this week. I have a second batch ready to keg sometime this weekend. Should be a go for July 4th festivities. I am leaving the recipe alone for now, going to keep the Pecan recipe close to see if I can replicate results with some consistency. I'll probably see about submitting a bottle or two once I zero in on the recipe for judging and get some feedback.
 
This recipe looks delicious.. Might try scaling this down to 1gal as a trial. I never thought about using pecans in cider before!
 
I am donating at a brewfest on 7/31 and I think I'll take a keg of this. I was planning on a beer but it's been 108F here for a week and that is just too hot to brew...
 
Keg 2 has been co ditioning now for a while. She can't wait to pour herself a pint!

No change to the recipe this time. Looking for consistency.
 
I found another use for this hard cider. Marinade brats for 24 hours in it and render it to syrup. Cider glazed brats are killer!
 
Keg 2 has been co ditioning now for a while. She can't wait to pour herself a pint!

No change to the recipe this time. Looking for consistency.
Sorry to bring an old thread up, but Totally Roasted is my wife and I's favorite cider. I am curious to see where you are at with this clone and if you are willing to share your latest recipe. Thanks!
 
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