PicoBrew Zymatic

anthropod · Sep 30, 2013

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1708005089/picobrew-zymatic-the-automatic-beer-brewing-applia

2.5Gal brewing capacity. Neat concept. Price is not that bad compared to other turnkey. Dishwasher and flush cleanup? Sound pretty neat. I could see this one taking off.

What do others think?

bluelakebrewing · Sep 30, 2013

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021921820_briercolumn30xml.html

Read about this in the morning paper. No idea he had a kickstarter. So he's a wealthy retired Microsoft employee and wants US to give him money? give me a break.

Not to be rude but it really isnt brewing. I would equate it to the easy bake oven of brewing. Put grains and hops in and then put it in the fridge to ferment, wheres the fun in that?

kh54s10 · Sep 30, 2013

So let me get this straight?!? We have some ex Microsoft (probably millionaires) who don't really like homebrewing, they want to make and Easybrew set it and forget it system and they can only do it if they get $150,000 in free money???

As bluelakebrewing said, where is the fun here? I would suspect that you would have to brew for a few years to make it pay for itself. If no longer.

mrphillips · Sep 30, 2013

Brewing is a labor of love. If you don't enjoy the process, then that's fine, but homebrewing might not be for you. I'll admit that the sanitizing process can get a little grueling (especially the bottles), but personally, I don't want to "Set it and forget it." I love the mixing, controlling the temp, stirring in the malts, tasting the wart, changing my mind and adding sh!t to the secondary...it's a beautiful thing.

Is it a cool idea? Very much so. Will it take off? I can't see it. My only real gripe with it is that it appears as though you can only do a couple gallons at a time. What if I want 10 gallons of beer? Do I run 2, 5 gallon batches? I guess there are some brewers who will only ever brew 5 gallon batches, but that's not me.

And what about the price? Lets say, hypothetically, that one of these machines costs $10,000. Think of all the equipment/grains you could buy with that money? I could buy 4, 15 gallon fermenters, and still have thousands left for supplies. Even if it only cost $1000, I think I'd still rather invest in one, used 15 gallon fermenter.

wookiemofo · Sep 30, 2013

For some of us with kids that limit our brewing time dramatically, i think it sounds awesome. IF, it gets the blessing from some pro brewers. I'd gladly pay $1500 for a 5 gal system. I already have over half that in equipment that doesn't get used as much because I have troubles finding time.

BeerGrylls · Sep 30, 2013

My two cents: if this is what it takes to get more people into the hobby, so be it! Rock on, and the innovation is very inspiring.

sch21c · Sep 30, 2013

I think it's pretty interesting. If you don't want to spend the better part of a weekend day off brewing, but still want to make some homebrew, it's a nice way to go.

Price doesn't seem that far out. System only does 2.5g batches.

I could see using it as a nice countertop pilot system. Nice way to see how things will come together. And removes the typical argument against small batches -- "If you're going to go through the trouble to brew, might as well do a full 5 gallon (or 10 gallon) batch)."

If I had the excess cash, I could see going for it. I think it'll wind up taking off. As BeerGrylls said, if it gets more people into the hobby, all the better.

And I don't understand the Microsoft hate here. So what if the guy was a former VP at MS? There are tons of successful silicon valley types using kickstarter to fund their next project. At it's heart kickstarter is just a pre-order system.

Leithoa · Sep 30, 2013

The product looks reasonably well thought out. Though for $1400 I'd prefer no plastic on the hot side of things.
I wonder what the quality of beer it puts out is compared to BIAB or more traditional methods. Since you only have two liquid vessels what sort of extraction rates do you get, and do you get increased tannins with, what looks to be, the circulation of wort during the sparge? What happens if you get a stuck sparge?

It's definitely an interesting product but I'm not sure there's enough of a market demand to keep a company afloat based solely on that product.

sch21c · Sep 30, 2013

Here's another one. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cargo/brewbot-the-smart-brewing-appliance

Adeering · Sep 30, 2013

I like the idea, it is a neat concept and would be awesome for test batches. Personally I do enjoy the full labor of brewing (even though Im working on an easier cleanup for my system). I want to make a small 2 gal batch system and this gives me a few ideas, though I dont want to go full automated like this. It will make for the hobby to expand and decent beers to be appreciated versus BMC

jpalarchio · Sep 30, 2013

I think there's probably a market for these systems if they can produce reasonably good beer and aren't an absolute pain to clean and maintain.

That said, the market is probably not anyone that frequents this forum.

The 3 gallon keg on this one is smart as people could just toss it in their fridge when it's ready to serve; not sure what the plan is for fermentation control though.

BeerGrylls · Sep 30, 2013

jpalarchio said:
the market is probably not anyone that frequents this forum.

I was thinking that exactly.. When the Keurig was just a proof-of-concept, the market wasn't people who roast their own beans. That doesn't mean it isn't a fantastic piece of equipment and a market success.

FuzzeWuzze · Oct 1, 2013

mrphillips said:
Brewing is a labor of love. If you don't enjoy the process, then that's fine, but homebrewing might not be for you. I'll admit that the sanitizing process can get a little grueling (especially the bottles), but personally, I don't want to "Set it and forget it." I love the mixing, controlling the temp, stirring in the malts, tasting the wart, changing my mind and adding sh!t to the secondary...it's a beautiful thing.

Is it a cool idea? Very much so. Will it take off? I can't see it. My only real gripe with it is that it appears as though you can only do a couple gallons at a time. What if I want 10 gallons of beer? Do I run 2, 5 gallon batches? I guess there are some brewers who will only ever brew 5 gallon batches, but that's not me.

And what about the price? Lets say, hypothetically, that one of these machines costs $10,000. Think of all the equipment/grains you could buy with that money? I could buy 4, 15 gallon fermenters, and still have thousands left for supplies. Even if it only cost $1000, I think I'd still rather invest in one, used 15 gallon fermenter.

Some would have said the same thing about espresso 15-20 years ago.
Now you can goto Walmart and buy a Keurig machine and make pretty amazing coffee in a desk sized machine.

Dont get me wrong i would never buy this, but i can see a market. Especially in craft breweries that are constantly trying to expand their lineup, being able to do quick and easy experiment batches in 3 hours while your off doing something else that you can then look at going full scale with could help a lot i would think?

jpalarchio · Oct 1, 2013

mrphillips said:
And what about the price? Lets say, hypothetically, that one of these machines costs $10,000. Think of all the equipment/grains you could buy with that money? I could buy 4, 15 gallon fermenters, and still have thousands left for supplies. Even if it only cost $1000, I think I'd still rather invest in one, used 15 gallon fermenter.

Except that the intro price is less than $1,500 and I would expect it to go down over time.

While homebrewing can be done with the smallest of budgets (think $30 Mr. Beer kits...), higher cost equipment seems to generally fall into the category of: function, "bling" and/or convenience. This product seems to span all three and that certainly comes at a cost.

Anyone could look at any of our homebrewing setups and surely find a way to achieve most of the same for less money. Could you ferment in three 5-gallon buckets as opposed to buying a 15-gallon stainless fermenter? Sure you could. But the purchase of that fermenter comes at a cost that covers both "bling" and convenience.

Onkel_Udo · Oct 1, 2013

I think the comparison to a Kuerig is flawed in a couple of ways:

K-cups are instant gratification for something you do DAILY

The Pico Brew still requires additional equipment (regulator, ice bucket, etc) and is NOT finished in 3 hours because and ice bath is the only shilling method.

Not saying it won't find a market...just the comparison is very flawed. A crockpot would have been a more apt comparison.

MX1 · Oct 1, 2013

It is the all grain Mr. Beer......

Bithead · Oct 1, 2013

As soon as I saw the article title I was reminded of this spoof.

Make your own beer with the computer - Microsoft Brew - with a head so big, you could float a mouse on it

rvklein · Oct 1, 2013

The fact that the device doesn't boil the wort (locks in at 208 ) is interesting. Supposedly no dms issues.

jbaysurfer · Oct 1, 2013

sch21c said:
Price doesn't seem that far out. System only does 2.5g batches.

...And removes the typical argument against small batches -- "If you're going to go through the trouble to brew, might as well do a full 5 gallon (or 10 gallon) batch)."

Oh thank God it eliminates arguments against small batches. So sick of the persecution!

mattd2 · Oct 1, 2013

Yeah it seems to shortcut some long held beliefs in brewing.
Boil (and allow the steam to escape) for DMS removal - The HBT Wiki states DMS boils at 210°F so even at 208°F you are not getting rid of it very efficiently.
Chill - they just breeze over chilling, "oh just through it in a bucket of ice". How about just doing no chill or sticking it in your fermentation fridge and get it down before pitching.
Eff of only 50-65% - surely they could get this up. Brutus 2.0's appartently get ~75%
Clean up & maintenance - what about taking the thing apart to clean out the element / pump. I have seen a few pictures on how nasty RIMS tubes get without be fully broken down for cleaning on HBT! I can see getting enough flowrate through the system for a real CIP process.

Except all that I like the concept of a simple small batch system, i think the excecution might have put a bit to much emphisis on form instead of function though

hirambiram · Oct 3, 2013

I can only speak for myself here obviously, but, I enjoy the entire process. I enjoy mashing in. I enjoy going to the LHBS and chatting peeps up for ideas and tips. This, to me, would not be enjoyable. Whats more is one batch would be gone in a sitting or two. I could'nt imagine any of my hombrew buddies even considering brewing this way. They're catchphrase should be "Homebrewing for the yuppie void of conviction".

Just my 2 cents.

ThatOneGuy · Oct 3, 2013

Id rather brew beer.

mattd2 · Oct 3, 2013

Check out these for what you can expect in your Zymatic
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/check-your-rims-element-232950/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/ew-look-my-rims-element-237790/

mjdonnelly68 · Oct 3, 2013

I have to say I don't understand the motivation behind these 'automatic' brewing set ups. I like brewing, the verb.

If you don't like brewing and you just like beer, isn't is much easier just to go down to the store and buy a six pack?

Ten years ago I could see the value in a product like this for folks who wanted a more complex beer than what was available commercially, but didn't want the 'hassle' of home brewing.

But today, the quality and diversity of craft beer is such that you can buy pretty much whatever floats your boat.

And if I'm really being honest, as a homebrewer these things offend me. It takes time and effort to become an experienced homebrewer. Automating that effort so that any disinterested ********* with more dollars than sense can jump the line - that's downright un-american.

NervousDad · Oct 3, 2013

I think this looks pretty neat, I still don't understand how they brew a batch in under an hour though... I like making beer recipes and tasting them, so small scale batches would be a bonus for me. I'm thinking about this one.....

Scottanooga · Oct 3, 2013

This is like driving 26.2 miles in your car because you love marathons but are really out of shape and don't like to sweat.

NTXBrauer · Oct 3, 2013

Move over coffee maker, next year eveyone will have a picobrew zymatic on their kitchen counter.

I want one. In no way does this mean I would give up the craft of home brewing as I do today, but it could help to develop and improve upon recipes brewing on a smaller 2.5 gallon scale.

Either way, it will be interesting to see where it is at 1 year from now. :mug:

stamandster · Oct 3, 2013

So your basically buying a brewtroller (et al), pump, korny keg, three "pots, rims tube? hmm... I don't know....

Besides the brewbot is way cooler

kal · Oct 3, 2013

Leithoa said:
The product looks reasonably well thought out. Though for $1400 I'd prefer no plastic on the hot side of things.

Yep. That's one thing I'm not too keen on.

mjdonnelly68 said:
But today, the quality and diversity of craft beer is such that you can buy pretty much whatever floats your boat.

Maybe in the US, but not everywhere. Many places do not have the selection available. A large reason I got into AG myself was because none of the beers I liked were available up in Canada.

I have seen first hand a lot of people come over and try my beer and enjoy it but when I tell them it's a 6-8 hour process + fermenting + kegging, and so forth, their eyes glaze over a bit.

I think it's perfect for someone that just wants to tinker with recipes and doesn't want to make a whole lot of beer at once. Given that it's somewhat automated, even though it's small 2.5 gallon batches, it's less work so just run it a couple of times to get a full 5 gallons.

One thing that both these automated setups is doing right is that they're brewing AG and not extract. These should give a LOT better quality than some Mr. Beer kit (which often just ends up turning the aspiring homebrewer off of making beer).

While neither setup is something I'd be interested in myself, I do think more interest in making beer yourself is a good thing for the homebrewing hobby in general. The more people that are interested in making beer (regardless of how it's made), the better for the rest of us who have an interest as well.

It means more shops to buy supplies, more online stores, etc. I imagine one day when every one of my neighbors stands around talking about what they've brewed up last. How cool would that be!

Kal

mattd2 · Oct 3, 2013

NTXBrauer said:
Move over coffee maker, next year eveyone will have a picobrew zymatic on their kitchen counter.

I want one. In no way does this mean I would give up the craft of home brewing as I do today, but it could help to develop and improve upon recipes brewing on a smaller 2.5 gallon scale.

Either way, it will be interesting to see where it is at 1 year from now.

But the thing is you could do that with (if you had a semi-decent kitch stove) with just a 4G pot and a grain bag - for probably less than $200 if you bought everything new and even had a ball valve on the kettle

I want to do 2 gallon (7.5 litre) batches because they would fit in 10 litre buckets nicely.

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