Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA clone

skeezerpleezer · Nov 23, 2011

This is easily my favorite Black IPA, and due to availability now and in the future, I figured I should begin the journey to clone it. I put together a recipe and emailed it to Stone hoping for some critique, and to my pleasant surprise I got a reply from Mitch Steele with some recommendations :mug:

. Based on his input, here is what I have:

Brew Type: All Grain
Style: Imperial IPA
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Volume: 8.00 gal
Boil Time: 90 min

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
15.80 lb 2 Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 79.0 %
1.60 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.0 %
0.80 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 4.0 %
0.80 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4.0 %
1.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00%] (90 min) Hops 69.0 IBU
2.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 32.4 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
2.00 oz pacific jade [9.00%] (1 min)
2.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.50%] (Dry Hop 7 days)
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Dark (275.0 SRM) Sugar 5.0 %
2 Pkgs California Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) [Starter 2500 ml] Yeast-Ale
-I may get some of the San Diego Super Strain for this

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.101 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.023 (hoping for 1.019 or so)
Estimated Color: 58.8 SRM
Bitterness: 102.4 IBU
Mash 150-151

I am planning to give this a go this weekend. Enjoy!

stevek767 · Nov 23, 2011

Subscribed!

Can't wait to hear how this turns out.

phoenixs4r · Nov 23, 2011

I might brew this today, which would mean dry yeast.... And I wonder if my brew shop has carafa III....

phoenixs4r · Nov 23, 2011

Did he mention they did a 60 minute boil, I would have figured a 90 minute, and a higher mash temp.... But im still new at deciphering recipes.

Athos710 · Nov 23, 2011

Subscribed!

skeezerpleezer · Nov 23, 2011

He didn't say on the boil, doing 90 could help efficiency because you would apathetic more. I had 154 for a mash temp.

skibb · Nov 23, 2011

Would it be possible for you to perhaps post what recipe you sent Mich and what his reply was?

skeezerpleezer · Nov 23, 2011

Sure thing. I will put it up later when I get back home.

scottland · Nov 23, 2011

Ya, I'd love to see the exact %s that mitch wrote. As far as yeast goes, WLP007 is claimed to be the strain that stone uses. It attenuates big beers very well, might be worth a look.

skeezerpleezer · Nov 23, 2011

The only real changes to the grain bill he recommended was upping my carafa to 4%, and adding the dark candy syrup. Also to move the pacific jade to flameout and dryhop with NS

phoenixs4r · Nov 23, 2011

candy sugar in the boil I presume? Does it matter when?

D_Ranged_Eskimo · Nov 23, 2011

Subscribed, this was a great beer and interested to see how your take turns out.

phoenixs4r · Nov 23, 2011

Ended up not brewing this today. My efficiency is so low that I would have to add extract to replace the grains I couldn't fit in the mash tun, and I would have had to use dry yeast, I'd rather wait for my mill and produce a starter of liquid yeast and do it right if I'm dropping this much on a recipe. Lol. Let me know how it turns out!

rednekhippiemotrcyclfreak · Nov 23, 2011

Ale Yeah!!!!!! I will be doin' this one. BTW, the word Ale at the beginning of this reply is actually two syllables.

SilverZero · Nov 23, 2011

phoenixs4r said:
candy sugar in the boil I presume? Does it matter when?

I think candi usually goes in late into the boil, maybe last 10-15mins? It's just a sugar boost, so it doesn't really need to be in there the whole time, and it might be better to wait until your early hops have been utilized before gumming up the works with the dark sugar.

beerandloathinginaustin · Nov 23, 2011

I am not a fan of black beers at all and I'm a big fan of this beer. The Citra & Nelson combo is so money. Use those two together in any other style of beer and people will love it. Tripel, pale, double ipa, quad, etc. They've all worked for me.

Fat_Bastard · Nov 24, 2011

I had this beer last night and I find it hard to believe it's 100 ibu's,It certainly didnt taste like it.
I really enjoyed it and would love to brew a clone.

sivdrinks · Nov 25, 2011

Great brew, subscribed!

craigger64 · Nov 25, 2011

Thanks for this post! This is by far my favorite beer right now!

SDBrewer · Nov 25, 2011

I'm interested to see how this turns out!

guinnessface · Nov 25, 2011

To piggyback on the candi sugar question: will it affect the taste of the beer, or just bump up the fermentable sugars? I assume I've had beer brewed with candi sugar, but I'm not certain. A lot of New Belgium styles (1554, Snow Day) seem to have a sweet finish......could this be the culprit? I've heard most of the Beligian ales use it in the process.

SilverZero · Nov 25, 2011

guinnessface said:
To piggyback on the candi sugar question: will it affect the taste of the beer, or just bump up the fermentable sugars? I assume I've had beer brewed with candi sugar, but I'm not certain. A lot of New Belgium styles (1554, Snow Day) seem to have a sweet finish......could this be the culprit? I've heard most of the Beligian ales use it in the process.

Candi will bump up the ABV, but will also add a slight bit of flavor, in proportion to how dark the candi is. Not really a lot of sweetness, as the sugar will be converted, but the "other" parts of the flavor, more caramel/molasses flavor. It will also thin out the beer a bit, but with all the other malt it's still going to be chewy.

Here's another thread with some discussion on candi sugar.

guinnessface · Nov 25, 2011

SilverZero said:
Candi will bump up the ABV, but will also add a slight bit of flavor, in proportion to how dark the candi is. Not really a lot of sweetness, as the sugar will be converted, but the "other" parts of the flavor, more caramel/molasses flavor. It will also thin out the beer a bit, but with all the other malt it's still going to be chewy.

Here's another thread with some discussion on candi sugar.

Awesome, thanks.

drainbamage · Nov 26, 2011

guinnessface said:
To piggyback on the candi sugar question: will it affect the taste of the beer, or just bump up the fermentable sugars? I assume I've had beer brewed with candi sugar, but I'm not certain. A lot of New Belgium styles (1554, Snow Day) seem to have a sweet finish......could this be the culprit? I've heard most of the Beligian ales use it in the process.

In the beers I've had with candi sugar (including Stone's 15th Anniversary Ale), it adds kind of a brown sugar/molasses flavor. Mostly, it just boosts fermentables.

Sounds like a good recipe, and it's cool that you got feedback from the brewery!

skeezerpleezer · Nov 27, 2011

Ok, so I was lazy this weekend and had company, so didn't get this brewed, but will try to do it when I get home Thursday. I also forgot to put Mitch's notes up, but will try to do it when I get off of this airplane.

The LHBS I went to Friday didn't have carafe III, but did have black patent. Anyone think that would work alright if I just mashed it for the last 10 minutes or so? If not, I drive by several other shops on the way home from the airport and can grab the carafe III Thursday.

skibb · Nov 27, 2011

Black patent would add a significant flavor difference compared to carafa III - adding it late to the mash is more for avoiding the astringent flavors associated with highly roasted malts rather than the roastiness itself. Dingemanns makes a de-bittered black malt that is probably the closest thing to Carafa III. Also, Briess makes a malt (blackprinz perhaps?) that is along the same lines - color without much flavor.

djfriesen · Nov 28, 2011

Heading over to pick stuff up right now. Planning on brewing it, along with a BIPA on Wednesday.

coroboto · Nov 28, 2011

Subscribed and awaiting a verdict...I need to sit this beer and an Arrogant Bastard down and have a hard talk about which is better...

:tank:

skibb · Nov 28, 2011

I really would like to see what Mitch said - Personally, after looking at all of Stone's published recipes, 10% crystal seems waaaay too much. Being of such a high OG, there will already be lots of residual sweetness, even with higher attenuation, and IMHO, all that crystal will make this too cloying of a beer. For example, Stone's Old Guardian barleywine only has 4% crystal total and attenuates fairly dry with such a high OG (1.103 down to 1.016). Similarly, Stone's last Black IPA (Sublimely Self-Righteous) finishes around 1.016 as well.

Personally, I would shoot for less Crystal malt and a lower OG, more dryer and less like a barleywine.
I wanted to see his actual response b/c it seems his response differs from the ingredients listed on Stone's official blog: The Stone Blog » Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA

That's why I'm curious if there is actually any dark candi sugar in recipe, rather than a suggestion from him to make it more fermentable, given you have 10% crystal malts in your recipe.

Edit: Just found a posting by Mitch about 11-11-11 where the percentages of the beer are given; 4% CaraBohemian (only other Stone recipe I can find where this particular malt is used). http://blog.stonebrew.com/?m=201111

RallyintheValley · Nov 28, 2011

I must brew this beer. This is up there with my favorite of all time. Can't wait for the updates on this thread.

Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA clone

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