Dog Forums

olllllo · Dec 2, 2006

Anyone know of any Dog Forums, specifically on correcting bad behavior.

I have this great dog, Ozzie, that has a severe case of seperation anxiety, that manifests itself every 3-4 months.

This happened 2 years ago:

He has made two more holes twice this size by the front and back door this week.

I'm so good at fixing drywall, that I seriously could use it as a fall-back career!

He's a sweet dog otherwise...

If I can find a dog forum 1/2 as good as this one is for beer, I know that I'll get this worked out.

:mug:

Thanks

TxBrew · Dec 2, 2006

DiscussDogs.com :mug:

When does your dog do this? Do you leave him running the house while you are gone and he does it?

If so you should start crating him when you leave.

Do you walk him often? At least every other day?

Orfy · Dec 2, 2006

http://www.dogforums.com/

I have a few trainer friends if you need pointers.

Nate · Dec 2, 2006

I feel your pain. My dog has done this many times but it was usually due to storms. I should have taken more pics...

olllllo · Dec 2, 2006

Thanks for the responses everyone.

He gets 2 20 minute walks a day. He has access to the backyard via the doggy door. We crated him, but he broke hhis canine trying to break out of the crate. Result was a 1K doggy root canal and jaw reinforcement.

He is on Chloripramine (Chlomocalm). Obviously not as effective as it should be, but what if he was worse w/o it.

Funny thing is is that he's not shadowing us around when we're home. In fact sometimes he'll go outside to sleep.

If left outside, he is able to chew through the cedar gate in a few hours. Besides I can't do this in the summer 'cause of the 155 degree heat.

Weds:

Fri:

I should note that we haven't changed our schedule in weeks...

I'll read through your suggested sites. Nate, if I figure this out, I'll pass on what I learn. Perhaps there is something else that sets him off like the UPS guy or something else. (Crap... I mean good. I'm getting 4 cornies next Thurs.) UPS test #1.

david_42 · Dec 2, 2006

Mice in the walls? Doors often provide entrance paths. Because of the way they are fitted, there can be gaps with nothing more than the trim on each side.

Nate · Dec 2, 2006

Ok, those pics are freakin' hilarious. Jackie destroyed one door so badly that I ended up replacing the entire door and frame. There are still several doors that need the trim replaced. Even after all that, I wouldn't trade him for the world. He's at an age now (approaching 14) that he no longer does this. Good luck with Ozzie.

todd_k · Dec 2, 2006

why do you leave your dog in the laundry room? I'd chew the walls too if you left me in there all day. I'd say more exercise and try leaving a tv or radio on in the room with calming music, that is suppose to help and makes them feel like someone is there with them.
Was your dog ever crate-trained? We crated Floyd until he was almost 2 and now we leave him out and we never have any problems.

Orfy · Dec 2, 2006

How about a muzzle and a crate?

Maybe leaving him with a distraction that he can take his frustration out on.
http://www.kongcompany.com/worlds_best.html

olllllo · Dec 3, 2006

todd_k said:
why do you leave your dog in the laundry room? I'd chew the walls too if you left me in there all day. I'd say more exercise and try leaving a tv or radio on in the room with calming music, that is suppose to help and makes them feel like someone is there with them.
Was your dog ever crate-trained? We crated Floyd until he was almost 2 and now we leave him out and we never have any problems.

He has free reign to all areas of the house and access to the backyard via the doggy door. He was hanging out in the laundry room because that's were the back door is (and where we come home).

I've tried the pheramone tratment and we' leave lights and radio on.

He gets 2 20 minute walks a day, which seemed suffiecient but we might have to up that to 2 30's or more.

We crated him, but he broke his canine trying to break out of the crate.

olllllo · Dec 3, 2006

orfy said:
How about a muzzle and a crate?

Maybe leaving him with a distraction that he can take his frustration out on.
http://www.kongcompany.com/worlds_best.html

We find that when we leave his kong out he saves it for when we get home.

olllllo · Dec 3, 2006

david_42 said:
Mice in the walls? Doors often provide entrance paths. Because of the way they are fitted, there can be gaps with nothing more than the trim on each side.

That's a great guess, but we have no other evidence of it. Haven't seen any droppings, heard any sounds, etc. Unless it's scorpions he's after, but I doubt it.

Bedlam · Dec 5, 2006

Okay, I'm not a vet, and I don't even play one on TV...but I DO know psychiatric medications.

The medication you mentioned is an older antidepressant, known as a Tri-cyclic (TCA). Missing a dose can cause some "withdrawal" which can be unpleasant. Any chance he missed his pill around the times he did the hole-diggin'?

The newer antidepressants (in the same family as Prozac), might be of more use, if you feel that the current one is ineffective. I have heard of a doggie version of Prozac, but you'd have to check w/your vet

I know from my human practice that lower doses are good for depression, but to get to the anxiety, higher doses are often needed. Not sure if that's applicable to canine neurobiology, but there you are.

hope this helps.

Jill

Brewpastor · Dec 5, 2006

Crates are great> I don't know about older dogs, but the dogs I have have been crated since they were pups and the crate is home. They are secure and at home in there.

Orfy · Dec 5, 2006

Brewpastor said:
Crates are great> I don't know about older dogs, but the dogs I have have been crated since they were pups and the crate is home. They are secure and at home in there.

I have one in my 4x4 for the dogs, they love it. Like you say it is home.
If I ever have it in the house, I's their choice to go sit in it.

olllllo · Dec 5, 2006

Bedlam said:
Okay, I'm not a vet, and I don't even play one on TV...but I DO know psychiatric medications.

The medication you mentioned is an older antidepressant, known as a Tri-cyclic (TCA). Missing a dose can cause some "withdrawal" which can be unpleasant. Any chance he missed his pill around the times he did the hole-diggin'?

The newer antidepressants (in the same family as Prozac), might be of more use, if you feel that the current one is ineffective. I have heard of a doggie version of Prozac, but you'd have to check w/your vet

I know from my human practice that lower doses are good for depression, but to get to the anxiety, higher doses are often needed. Not sure if that's applicable to canine neurobiology, but there you are.

hope this helps.

Jill

Yes, we are definately getting the vet involved on this one. We have an appointment to discuss this. In speaking with him informally, it looks like we're going to get a trainer involved and the trainer's input on what drugs are appropriate.

I suspect Oz is getting a tolerance for the current drug schedule.

olllllo · Dec 5, 2006

Brewpastor said:
Crates are great> I don't know about older dogs, but the dogs I have have been crated since they were pups and the crate is home. They are secure and at home in there.

We may have to re-train him with the crate thing.
We crated him but managed to get out. I finally reinforced all of the cage joints with locking caribeaners so that he could'nt force the cage open or collapse the cage and break free.

This resulted in him gnawing on the metal bars until he broke off his lower canine tooth.

It's going to take a great deal of anti-aversion training to overcome that.

Genghis77 · Dec 5, 2006

Antidepressants for dogs are bad in high dosages due to liver impact. Lower dosage 2 or 3 times daily is better. When crated, a dog should have plenty of room as well as water and toys available.

dibby33 · Dec 11, 2006

Trying to understand a dog can be complex, we have to try and think like them which is not easy. Dogs are pack animals and when away from the pack they get distressed. Your dog is obviously wanting to be with you but does not think that you are going to return.

How about gradually increasing the amount of time you are out the house 5, 10, 20,30min then 1hr, 2hr etc.

I have a 4 year old border collie and he still does not like being alone, luckily I have a big back garden for him to sulk around in and bark and people walking past (or within 200yards!) When I leave in the morning (at 7am) I chuck small bits of food (cheese normally) over the garden so it gives him something to do during the day (or at least until I have left so the neighbours don't get woken).
I tried the kong thing but I got the same result - he did not touch it until I returned, dogs only play when they are relaxed, like humans.

As for the drywall, learning a new skill is good! I would put up some boards (teeth / claw proof) around the areas that he is destroying until he grows older and wiser.

I have never heard of dogs being given drugs to help them chill and I would not put my dog in a crate - he would destroy it as you would expect. My dog sat on the back seat in the car. Unluckily for me he was car sick for the first 18 months which got rather messy!

Good luck

olllllo · Dec 11, 2006

Meeting with trainer Thurs. Trainers claim to fame is Stevie Nicks' Dog.
Oh, and Kurt Rambis.

Jokes can apply here.

todd_k · Dec 12, 2006

Do you walk your dog in your neighborhood and let him pee on other people's lawns? I always feel weird if he starts going but it's right on the edge of he grass. I do pick up the poop with a plastic bag.

TxBrew · Dec 12, 2006

Sounds like a tough problem. Usually walking the dog is a huge step but you have to walk the dog correct. People think walking a dog is enough but you have to walk the dog correctly where the dog is not focused on anything but you and not pulling or trying to sniff things. The dog needs to be doing a job for you on the walk. This walking exhausts the dog physically but more importantly mentally. I used to let my dog sniff things and play about on walks but I would notice bad behavior forming. Then I trained him to walk correct and the behavior left.

Dogs are such amazing animals. Saw this thread today:

http://www.discussdogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1919

Hi all, I havent been posting alot here. I have been going through alot. I lost both my parents and my brother on Oct 30. My brother was a sick person and shot and killed both my parents before turning the gun on himself. The only thing helping me get through this is my wonder puppy. He makes my days go by and keeps me busy. When I have a bad day and just want to cry he is right there in my arms. I truly believe he knows something is wrong. He has been very well behaved and its almost like he doesnt want to upset me.

todd_k · Dec 13, 2006

wow, that really sucks.

Kind of a weird segue here but don't let him poop on neighbors lawn even if I pick it up with a plastic bag?

olllllo · Dec 13, 2006

Always walk the dog on your left and walk so your left is always the street side.

Yooper · Dec 13, 2006

todd_k said:
wow, that really sucks.

Kind of a weird segue here but don't let him poop on neighbors lawn even if I pick it up with a plastic bag?

Well, make sure that you are OBVIOUSLY standing there with your little baggie. People are funny about the doggy doing natural things in front of children, etc. I say heck with them. As long as you clean up after, what difference does it make WHERE he goes?

Ok, olibatory joke on OllllllllO's post- Stevie Nicks dog's physcological trainer? If anything she's the one who needs a therapist, not the dog. That's all I have- I've been drinking :drunk:

Seriously, I think the dog will be fine- as someone else said earlier in these posts, dogs are pack animals and he's looking for the rest of the pack. Abandonment is very scary. He doesn't remember that you're coming right back. If an expert can help him realize that you are the pack leaders and coming back to be with him, he'll be fine.

Lorena

the_bird · Dec 13, 2006

Exactly. I keep Troy from tinkling in flower beds and the like, but if he starts to squat on the edge of someone's lawn - the bag is out immediately. It's like a flag, letting everyone know that I'm not one of THOSE dogwalkers.

I have no idea about the separation anxiety, though, sorry.

How 'bout a second dog?

Fiery Sword · Dec 14, 2006

Same here with the baggies......I do my best to keep her off people's lawn edges and all but sometime it is unavoidable. Similar to my neighbor's kid's basketballs that periodically bounce off my truck.....crap happens, people who get all bunched up about that stuff should live somewhere where proximity to neighbors in not an issue. Where I'm at we are all on top of each other so you just can't get too rattled if a dog goes on your lawn, as long as the owner is making a reasonable effort to prevent it.

My parents have a beagle that is 9 or so now and she has always had pretty severe separation anxiety. I remember driving down to the breeder's farm with my Dad to pick her up when she was a young pup and she more or less cried for 4 straight days. She has been an excellent, smart, and obedient dog all her life but she also hates to be alone. When she way young, she used to cry for a few hours once everyone left the house....and when anyone got home it was like the second coming.

Another general side-effect of this is that she is a very nervous dog. They type of dog that runs away if you sneeze, or if the wort paddle hits the floor...gone! She hates thunder, fireworks, and cleaning equipment in general. There are even times around the Fourth of July or New Years where my parents hit her with some vet-prescribed 'doggie downers' so she doesn't freak out too much.

Sammy, despite her anxiety, has never been much of a home-destroyer. She'd just prefer to alternate between nervous sleep and dirty sock gathering - which strangely enough seemed to be a kind of separation-anxiety combatant for her. Anything that smelled like the family needed to be neatly piled somewhere near her when we weren't around....she'd spend a good deal of the day raiding laundry baskets and bed sheets for such items.

olllllo · Dec 14, 2006

I live in a neighborhood with 100 houses and I estimate there are 20 dogs.
We are in a new development and we live between old school farms, homes owned by the same families for decades and some fairly dicey transitional areas.
Because of this, we do get at least 2-3 strays wandering into our community per week.

So there's some unaccounted for crapping going on. Plus, Im sure that there are 1-2 owners with no respect.

There are a few neighbors that seem to blame anyone walking their dog.
It's gotten so bad with the bag thing that you have to stuff the bag in your waistband like your playing flag football.

When you own a dog you get to be some kind of poopologist. You can pick out your dogs business in a lineup if you had to. My dog does 3-4 biscuits. If he's in the back yard it's in a pile. If we're walking the neighborhood, then he drops them while doing a clockwise rotation. (yeah strange) He only goes in 2 public areas of the development. I didn't train that, it just seems to be his preference.

Alot of the time, the poop that people complain about is cat. That's a whole different story.

That's alot of poop talk.

On another note, the trainer is coming today. We'll see if he arrives with any Stevie Nicks scarves singing Landslide.

olllllo · Apr 4, 2007

We had a disappointing meeting with the trainer of renown in December.

We got the, "I have never seen anything like this in all of my 30 years of training..."

Here's what has worked over the last 3 months:
http://www.petsmart.com/global/prod...hock&In=All&previousText=shock&N=2+4294966384

We have 5 areas that the OZ is forbidden in and so far, we are without incident.

Costly, Yes. But it's been effective. There is always a possibility that he will misdirect his behavior somewhere else and it will cost me $49.99 for another barrier. Batteries will be eaten by the system like PeZ until I have the opportuntity to hack in a DC transformer. Sucks that that is not a standard feature.

I really wish that I would have had the nads to use this along time ago when I initally thought of it but SWMBO wasn't ready to take that step. It would have saved a lot of $$ and stress.

If anyone has this problem. I will be more than happy to relate my experience and answer any questions about how this works.

Thanks for everyone's support and advice in the past.

olllllo · Apr 4, 2007

And yes, I know I jinxed myself. I am resisting the urge to go home at lunch to check up on things.

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