I'm going to make a pale ale again

BrewSwag 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Kaiser

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
3,895
Reaction score
171
Location
Pepperell, MA
Hi there,

After my disappointment with the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone, I'm going to try another pale ale again. This time less IBUs, since the SNPA clone bitterness came out way to harsh (I blame it on the Perle).

There is one that I liked a lot when I was still up in New England: Tuckerman Pale Ale brewed by Tuckerman Brewing Company (http://www.tuckermanbrewing.com/ in North Conway). Does anybody have specs on this beer? It's not widely distributed which makes it impossible for me to get a sample.

I assume it's IBUs are in the mid 20s and the web site shows the following:

Pale AleTuckerman Brewing Co.’s flagship beer. Our interpretation of an
American style Pale Ale, it is brewed using English and Belgian specialty malts and four different domestic whole hops. It is dry hopped and bottle conditioned, creating a beer with a strong malt character and a floral yet spicy hop quality. Tuckerman Pale Ale will be available year round. Currently, it is our introductory beer and is our only brew available.


I would use English 2-row, some light crystal and maybe some Belgian aromatic. I'm not sure about the 4 different hops. Cascade is definitely one of them and probably also the one to dry hop with. I'll keep it simple and will select another hop for bittering.

Any suggestion for a bittering hops that will give a smooth bitterness?

The website also states that secondary fermentation and dry-hopping are done at 40F. I will try this too.

I'm not really trying to clone this beer, since I have way to little information, but finally make a good APA inspired by this one.

Kai
 
I like Columbus for bittering (I buy pellets by the pound), but Northern Brewer is also nice.
 
King Kai said:
Hi there,

After my disappointment with the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone, I'm going to try another pale ale again. This time less IBUs, since the SNPA clone bitterness came out way to harsh (I blame it on the Perle).
Click to expand...

I'd blame it on the Perles too. I'll know for sure in a few days when I get to try LWPA (v.4) when I rack it to secondary. I used Amarillo to bitter this time instead of Perle. The times I used Perle it was harsh.


King Kai said:
I assume it's IBUs are in the mid 20s
Click to expand...
That seems low....

King Kai said:
Any suggestion for a bittering hops that will give a smooth bitterness?
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in learning this too! :)
 
i like cascade for bitterness, or spalt. any low alpha varieties work well... i tend to stay away from anything over 8...im drinking a single hopped pale ale right now made with cascade and its lovely...about 35 ibus, but not clinging at all...nice and mellow...:D
 
Genghis77 said:
If I had room, I would switch to whole hops. But pellets take much less space.:mug:
Click to expand...
Oh my do I know what you are talking about!
I purchased 3 pounds of whole hops from hops direct. When they arrived I weighed them and I actually received more like 5 pounds! Do you have any idea how much space 5 pounds of whole hops takes up? I've got a refrigerator that I put my kegs in. The freezer is now full of hops! I figure I have enough hops for about 30 batches. Sure hope I like them! :eek:
 
kent goldings give a nice round bitter in the full boil.... and cascade as an aroma really compliment them, imho.:mug:
 
I like Tuckermans, and to boot it is the best beer label in America. Others may not agree but I really like using chinook for bittering hops, and when used with restraint they will impart a very smooth bitterness, which you can further round out with Centennial and Cascade. You just can't overdo the chinook and you need to age the beer appropriately to round out the flavor. I usually do chinook up front for 60, sometimes with a 1/2 oz of Centennial, a half ounce of Centennial at 30, and then cascade the rest of the way. this is the typical hop schedule I use for my American pales. I think 20 IBUs is light, but that is partially personal preference, since I would agree Tuckermans is on the lighter end of the scale when compared to SV or Harpoon. i'd shoot for 30, but I love hops...
 
jeffg said:
I think 20 IBUs is light, but that is partially personal preference, since I would agree Tuckermans is on the lighter end of the scale when compared to SV or Harpoon. i'd shoot for 30, but I love hops...
Click to expand...

I think I will be shooting for 27 - 30 IBUs now. Not much more as there won't be much maltiness to balance the bitterness and I don't like my beers that bitter.

Thank's for the tips with the hops. I'll look through the desciption of the hops and see what should work best for me.

Kai
 
I agree on the IBU's, but it's up to personal taste. I do 35-37 IBU's in my APA and I think it's balanced nicely. I do use a little Munich to up the maltiness a hair. I've been bittering with Amarillo lately and I think it's a fantastic bittering hop for American style ales.
 
Well, I brewed today.

I ended up using Centenial (10%) and Cascade hops. The Centenial I used for bittering at 60 and 30min and the Cascase for flavor (15min) and Aroma (3min steep). I will also be dry hopping with cascade. I decided to aim for 26 IBU. Yes this is low, but I'm a weenie that doesn't like bitter beers. Based on the ales that I made so far, I figured that 26 will suit me well. I also expect to drink this beer in 5 weeks.

This was also the first single infusion mash that I did. For some reason my efficiency soared to 80% (I had 70 and 72% before). I ended up dilluting the wort since I wanted to stay around 12P gravity. I have lot's of additional wort left over that I will be using for priming and for future starters. I guess the reason of having a lover efficiency of my previous batches was, that they were all at the limit of my set-up (12+ lb of grain) and I was not able to collect as much run-off as I could have.

Kai
 
Don't you love it when that happens? Maybe something at CBC rubbed off on you? I brewed an amber ale last weekend and was setup for 75% and got 82%, so I did the same thing as you and diluted in the primary to keep it <6%.

Sounds like it's time for a 10g cooler in Chez King Kai!
 
BeeGee said:
Sounds like it's time for a 10g cooler in Chez King Kai!
Click to expand...

Not really. The 5gal cooler works just fine for me. I'f I had a 10gal cooler and wanted to do higher gravity batches as AG, I'd also need a bigger boil kettle to boil down all the run-off. this is just something that I don't want to invest into right now.

Kai
 
Just an update on this,

This APA turned out pretty well. There is Cascade aroma and flavor. The bitterness is somewhat on the low side (you guys where right ;)), but that can easily be fixed next time around. I really like the fact that I was finally able to get the flavor and aroma from the Cascade hops and this may just become my house-APA after I tweak it a little bit. I also have to say that I'd like a little bit more body next time around. It seems to watery for my taste.

I'd like to post the recipe here, but how do I get it out of BeerSmith in text form?
 
I found it:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chubby Angel
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 21.50 L
Boil Size: 24.61 L
Estimated OG: 12.416 Plato
Estimated Color: 7.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type
4.08 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 87.7%
0.23 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4.9%
0.23 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.9%
0.11 kg Belgian Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2.4%
12.00 gm Centennial [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 13.5 IBU
9.20 gm Centennial [10.00%] (30 min) Hops 8.0 IBU
14.20 gm Cascade [4.60%] (15 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
0.50 gm Cascade [4.60%] (3 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops
28.30 gm Cascade [4.60%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast Ale

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.66 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 11.15 L of water at 75.0 C 67.8 C 60 min
mash-out Add 3.67 L of water at 95.8 C 74.0 C 20 min

Fermentation:
7 days in primary at 65-68*F
14 days in secondary at 45-50*F (dry-hop here)
bottle and carbonate at room temp.



Notes:
- The bittering hops may be adjusted to get a bitterness around 30 IBU. This recipe is supposed to show a medium bitterness for an APA to leave the hop flavor and aroma in the foregound
- the mash at 67*C might be shortened to 45 or 50 min (check for conversion) to get an FG between 3.0P and 3.25P. This may depend on your mash equipment
- this batch was primed using kraeusen. If you so this make a starter bigger than necessary for priming and make sure you only get the yeast that is in suspesion in order to avoid having lot's of yeast in the bottle. Using this method the beer was fully carbonated in 6 days.

Kai
 
US units version

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chubby Angel
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.7 gal
Boil Size: 6.5 gal L
Estimated OG: 12.416 Plato
Estimated Color: 7.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type
9.0 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 87.7%
0.5 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4.9%
0.5 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.9%
0.25 lb Belgian Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2.4%
0.42 oz Centennial [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 13.5 IBU
0.32 oz Centennial [10.00%] (30 min) Hops 8.0 IBU
0.5 oz Cascade [4.60%] (15 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
0.5 oz Cascade [4.60%] (3 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops
1.0 oz Cascade [4.60%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast Ale
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 10.25 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 11.78 qt of water at 75.0 C 154 F 60 min
mash-out Add 3.88 qt of water at 95.8 C 165 F 20 min
Fermentation:
7 days in primary at 65-68*F
14 days in secondary at 45-50*F (dry-hop here)
bottle and carbonate at room temp.

Notes:
- The bittering hops may be adjusted to get a bitterness around 30 IBU. This recipe is supposed to show a medium bitterness for an APA to leave the hop flavor and aroma in the foregound
- the mash at 154*F might be shortened to 45 or 50 min (check for conversion) to get an FG between 3.0P and 3.25P. This may depend on your mash equipment
- this batch was primed using kraeusen. If you so this make a starter bigger than necessary for priming and make sure you only get the yeast that is in suspesion in order to avoid having lot's of yeast in the bottle. Using this method the beer was fully carbonated in 6 days.
Kai
 
So, for a newbie such as myself, how would I go about converting this to an extract version? I have steeped grain pre-boil but I don't think I'm ready for an all grain just yet. Could I use promash to help me out? Thanks!!
 
omniscientomar said:
So, for a newbie such as myself, how would I go about converting this to an extract version? I have steeped grain pre-boil but I don't think I'm ready for an all grain just yet. Could I use promash to help me out? Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Use Promash/BeerSmith/Recipator to do the calculations for you.

If you want to use the Belgian Aromatic you will have to make a mini mash:

1lb Pale Malt
0.5lb Crystal 10L
0.5lb Crystal 40L
0.25lb Belgian Aromatic

Mash for 30min at 160F. The higher temp is faster but will give you lots of dextrins, which is ok since the vast majority of the fermentables will come from the LME/DME.

If you omit the Belgian (shouldn't make much of a difference) you can just steep the Crystal in 160F water for 30 min.

Using a program, calculate the amount of LME or DME you will need to get to the intended starting gravity.

Kai
 
Cool, thanks for the help. Here's what I came up with using ProMash, any feedback would be appreciated.


A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

10-A American Ale, American Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.060
Min IBU: 30 Max IBU: 54
Min Clr: 5 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Extract (Lbs): 8.00
Anticipated OG: 1.057 Plato: 14.02
Anticipated SRM: 6.3
Anticipated IBU: 23.8
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.048 SG 12.00 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
87.5 7.00 lbs. Alexander LME - Pale America 1.037 2
6.3 0.50 lbs. Crystal 10L America 1.035 10
6.3 0.50 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.25 oz. Centennial Pellet 10.50 12.5 60 min.
0.30 oz. Centennial Pellet 10.50 7.6 30 min.
0.50 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.75 3.6 15 min.
0.50 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.75 0.0 0 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.75 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1056 Amercan Ale/Chico




Notes
-----

2nd Cascade (0.50 oz.) in for 3 min steep.

3rd Cascade (1.0 oz.) dry hop f
or 14 days in secondary.
 
Your gravity is a touch high: Kai's recipe anticipates an OG of 12.416 Plato.

Mulitply degrees Plato by .004 to get SG points: you get a gravity just below 1.050.

With your gravity a touch high and your IBUs quite low for the style (you have 24, style range is 30-54), I don't think this is really going to have the balance you want for the style.

I'd recommend reducing the LME to get closer to 1.050 OG, and upping the bittering hops to get up to 30 or more.

I like a BU/GU ratio of about .8 for beers in the bitters/PA/IPA family. That'd be 40 IBUs for a 1.050 beer. Kai set out to make a little less bitter APA, of course.
 
sweet, thanks for the tip, I'm down to a 1.050 OG and 32.5 IBU's with the same ingredients... I got to the higher IBUs by increasing the 60min boil hopps, would I get a different type of bitterness by increasing the 30 or 15 min boil additions instead?
 
omniscientomar said:
sweet, thanks for the tip, I'm down to a 1.050 OG and 32.5 IBU's with the same ingredients... I got to the higher IBUs by increasing the 60min boil hopps, would I get a different type of bitterness by increasing the 30 or 15 min boil additions instead?
Click to expand...

Yes--to make a long story moderately short...

Aroma is extracted from hops in boils of 5 minutes or less: anything more evaporates the volitile aromatics.

Hops flavor is extracted mostly by boils in the 5-20 minute range, although many believe that some flavor is also extracted in slightly longer boils.

Bitterness is extracted by longer boils that release the alpha acids from the hops: 30 or more minutes. (60 minutes is the standard boil length for bittering hops.)

This is why recipes so often call for three hops additions: maybe at 60, 15, and 2 minutes.

The amount hops that you boil for the full 60 minutes is your primary control over bitterness as measured by IBUs.

Your new targets look good for an APA with moderate bitterness.
 
cweston said:
I like a BU/GU ratio of about .8 for beers in the bitters/PA/IPA family. That'd be 40 IBUs for a 1.050 beer. Kai set out to make a little less bitter APA, of course.
Click to expand...

Now that seems to be the funny thing with my beers. I had one of Dude's beers recently, which was hopped to target 40 IBUs, but when I compared it to my beers I would have guessed that it as only 25-30 IBUs. This told me that there might be significant differences in hop utilization between brewers and that you may have to figure out the IBUs you want to target based on previous batches. I understand that that is difficult if you are just beginning.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
Now that seems to be the funny thing with my beers. I had one of Dude's beers recently, which was hopped to target 40 IBUs, but when I compared it to my beers I would have guessed that it as only 25-30 IBUs. This told me that there might be significant differences in hop utilization between brewers and that you may have to figure out the IBUs you want to target based on previous batches. I understand that that is difficult if you are just beginning.
Click to expand...

This is definitely true. I have the Clone Brews and Beer Captured books--I have "calibrated" my IBU calculations on Recipator by typing in a few of their recipes and figuring out what parameters and factors I need to get the same IBUs that they get for those recipes. But there is no question that IBUs as calculated by homebrewers are really mostly useful only in comparison to the IBUs of other beers from the same brewer.

Edit: Specifically, I find that I need to use the Rager method and a custom factor of .83 on Recipator to duplicate the IBU values printed in those books.
 

Similar threads

BugAC
Grapefruit Heavy Pale Ale/Hops
Replies
4
Views
245
day_trippr
day_trippr
Zigs6
EKG and Idaho 7 for a Pale ale?
Replies
7
Views
435
Erik the Anglophile
Erik the Anglophile
F
Advice on developing clone of Mast Landing "Windbreaker" NEIPA?
Replies
4
Views
670
poptarts
poptarts
H
Citrusy Pale Ale to clean out the freezer
Replies
7
Views
781
lumpher
lumpher
Gadjobrinus
N. England - late hopping guidance, IBU's?
Replies
24
Views
1K
day_trippr
day_trippr
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top