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What you describe as a "tart" flavor - could it be the "hop burn" flavor that I and others have experienced? I used to believe this was a yeast burn - but I am pretty sure it's more due to hops in suspension. I have found that you can filter it out with gelatin, or give it a few days of cold...

Brau, I see you are using 1318 rather than your usual 1272 yeast for this. Are you using 1318 these days? What's your thoughts on it?

milldoggy - this is the batch you made with Kolsch yeast? How does it compare with using an English yeast like 1318, etc? What hops did you use?

You would think. Question - what temperature is your keg kept at? Is it right down to 33f?

You know, I wonder if what's happening is that the yeast/hops *do* drop out, but they drop to the bottom of your keg. And since there is so much, they get sucked up into the pickup tube at the bottom when you pour from the keg? Just thinking out loud.

No - but they were pretty easy to tell the difference. The unfined had just a slight burn in the after taste. The fined was very clean. As a side note - I kicked and cleaned the keg today of the unfined batch. The glass I was pouring when the keg kicked, like usual, was all murky and...

Yes - as you know I had the same result with gelatin - more clear but still hazy, MUCH more clear taste, yet still all the hop flavor/aroma. When I fined with gelatin, I had a split batch. I fined 1/2, and left the second half in my basement for an additional week. While not *as* clean...

So let me get this straight - you are theorizing that you get less burn (due to less suspended hops) if you dry hop *later*? And how long do you leave the dry hops in - say if you hop at day 10?

It made it somewhat more clear, but it is still attractively hazy :-). It did not seem to affect the taste though - other than remove the burn taste. still smells great. But keep in mind I did not carb it up yet, I'm doing that now so I will report back in a couple days. Yes - I also...

I keg it. If I make a batch with the burn, I've given it a few weeks in the fridge, and it does not seem to get a while lot better. It could be the amount r type/batch of hops - IDK. But recently I fined it with gelatin, and that seems to help a lot. So does that indicate it might be hop...

It's not that it's bad, it just wasn't giving me what I was looking for. It seems to me that there are certain yeasts that I've found including 1318, 1098, S04, and probably others that react to a huge amount of hops by providing a brilliant zesty citrusy brightness and a big haze it seems...

Hey bbohanon, After fermentation ends at 70f after 5 days, can you tell me what then? Do you ramp the temp back down over time? when do you dry hop, and at what temp? I'm glad you have tamed 1318! Thanks!

Update on the 1318 yeast burn/bite: I just fined a beer with gelatin that had the yeast burn taste, and it greatly improved after 1 day. I'm not sure what this tells me, or how to avoid it still, but it's nice to know if I can actually filter it out this way. Could be yeast or hop particles...

I have tried Yorkshire - I split batched it and did 1318 in one, yorkshire in the other. I didn't care for it too much honestly. the 1318 was way better.

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That's exactly what I experience. Only sometimes, and only after several days to a week in the keg. At first, it's awesome, but over several days the hop brilliance gives way to diacetyl. Even when given a lengthy secondary time (but below 70f) In my last batch I gave it an extended...

So PianoMan, looking back you seem to have had diacetyl issue with this beer when you kegged it. But then did you switch to bottling to avoid it? (My theory would be that the yeast in the bottle eats the diacetyl when carbing). So has anyone else figured out how to avoid diacetyl with...

What *is* your dryhop schedule? And if you don;t mind me asking, what's your fermentation temps/schedule?

PianoMan - what was your dry hop schedule? How long did it sit on hops? You had no astringent yeast taste nor diacetyl?

I am fairly convinced it's a yeast issue - the fact that you used a different yeast enforces that belief. I use 1318, and I know it's different than S-04, but I think they behave similar. Is there a Wyeast equiv to Imperial Juice? I can not figure out why some people manage to make clean...