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That's pretty much everybody everywhere for cider apples. Annoyingly.

I don't remember the numbers off hand, and they were kinda variable. But Jolicoeur and Lea and other Proulx/Nichols all had suggested bittersweet/bittersharp ratios. So look up the classifications for those apples and those ratios?

What is that? Doesn't look like apple juice and that's a super low OG for apple juice.

Ah, I hadn't put it together with the oxygen. That makes more sense. Thanks. As for sulfite-yeah, don't need to in wort because you just pasteurized it. But cider is likely to have plenty of wild yeasts & bacteria in it.

I seem to recall a couple of books suggesting up to 10% by juice volume, but they were assuming the rest of the fermentation was cider apples. And up to 20% if it was a bland fermentation/dessert apples in a different book? Fuzzy on the specifics, I just remember up to 20% for some reason...

Why does underpitching result in stressed yeast? A dose of sulfite should give the pitched yeast time to establish itself.

Maybe all the tannins are leeched out after 2-3 uses. But even then, how long the barrel is full should matter too. Duration filled would be a better metric. The micro-oxidation that barrels allow can still be a reason to barrel age, even after the tannins are spent.

Considering how many ciders go through MLF and the fact there isn't a "Here's the standard T/A, always aim for it", there's got to be more to it than just malic acid.

Sterile filtration lets you safely backsweeten. Ferment to dryness, filter out the yeast, sweeten to taste. Artificially carb. Aging is a separate thing.

Montrachet is well known for producing a rotten eggs/sulphur odor, so that's part of the problem.

Which makes it fun to talk about! Provided we don't just talk past each other and get angry along the way. Cheers!

Nope and probably not! I just thought it was interesting trivia. Barrels are a pain in the ass, even if they are an appealingly romantic one. Yeah, that's enough volume to start worrying about margins. And enough experience to know where you can trim those margins safely, I'm betting...

So I assume original volume, not bottled volume? 6 5 gallon batches of different brand store juices with different yeasts. So 30 +167=197 Bottled my first 5 gallons from early october a few days ago. Should be interesting in a few weeks after bottle conditioning!

It wasn't an unknown historical(or modern) practice to just fill a barrel all the way up with the bung uncovered. And not seal it until the frothy vigorous fermentation was finished. I kind of agree with you from a 'waste is abhorrent' standpoint. But on the other hand, the amount of volume...

Do we go by yeast pitch date or bottling date?

That's really high for a "finished" cider. I'd keep one bottle in a warm place for a couple weeks(but inside a kettle or something) to test if it's truly finished.

Our friends need to start learning from their mistakes.

This is actually about cider, but is more of a general question so I'm going with the bigger forum. I just bought some https://www.morebeer.com/products/carboy-bung-silicone-breathable.html for some cider batches. So the carboys would store more compactly when fermenting. And to stop...

The accepted wisdom is that wild ferments aren't from a single colony, but a succession of different ones(that grow steadily more ABV tolerant?) so capturing things is difficult.

I was really hoping the vault would open for the 2018 cidermaking season. Instead, it'll ship soon enough to be expired for the 2019 season. Great. Does Yeast freeze well for 7-9 months?