Mosaic S.M.A.S.H. (yellow rose clone)

[NatureOfTheYeast]

Yes, too, on ignoring the IBUs from whirlpool and dry hop.

Wellll...

The whirlpool will give some bitterness, but the utilization is around 5%-10% on our homebrew scale, depending on gravity and amount of hops used. If you have some kind of whirlpooling setup where you're pumping near-boiling wort, similar to Jamil's whirlpool chiller, then you'll get utilization on the higher end of that range. Pro breweries need to consider this fact due to a half hour or so whirlpool before pumping to the chiller. Some even need to shift boil hop additions further towards the end of the boil due to the extended time the wort spends hot to avoid bitterness bombs.

I know personally that whirlpool hops count towards bitterness. One of my 47 IBU Pale Ales would only clock in at 18 IBU otherwise.

Some info from the pope himself: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=3078860&postcount=4

The dry hop though, yeah, such a small IBU contribution it's not even measurable or even noticeable. You still will get some bitterness. Well, sort of. It's like, put a hop in your mouth and chew it, it's totally non-isomerized, yet it's bitter as all heck. Sorry I made you do that, your ability to taste will probably come back in a couple of days. Anyway, you'll get some of that from dry hopping, but it isn't emulsified in the beer and drops out quickly. So circling back around, yes, dry hopping doesn't add bitterness. Well, it does, but it doesn't. Wait, what was I talking about?

 

[Biez43]

Saturday night I took several bottles of my clone along with a 750ml bottle of Yellow Rose to a party with some craft beer drinking friends. Everyone who tried it loved it. Said the aroma and flavor were both real close and that mine had a bit more body, which I will assume was due to a higher ABV. (8.4% vs. 6.8%) I used the above hop schedule with 14 pounds of German Pilsner (Weyerman) a 60 minute mash at 153 and a 90 minute boil. Next time I will cut back to 12.5 pounds of pilsner to bring it down closer to the original. My OG was 1.078 and my FG was 1.014.

Sorry, forgot to add that I fermented with US-05.

At the end of the night, all four bottles of mine were gone, and there was still close to 1/3 of the bottle of Yellow Rose left. Well, until I drank it.

A little late to the party on this one, but why did you do a 90 min boil when your first hop edition is at 30 mins? Was it just to get down to volume?

 

[CGVT]

Pilsner malt is sometimes boiled for 90 mins to drive off DMS (cream corn taste)

Some people say it isn't necessary to boil for 90 minutes others say it is. YMMV

 

[SevenOaks]

Pulled the last pint of the Mosaic SMaSH yesterday and brewed it again today. It's going to be a long 4 weeks or so waiting to have it again.

 

[NTexBrewer]

Here is my take.

I followed the hopping schedule from TxBigHops. Pilsner malt utilizing multiple rests. I also used gelatin fining.

Finally had a chance to do a side by side. I have to say this recipe is very tasty and they are both very similar. I would say that Lone Pint is a little more bitter than TxBigHops hopping schedule. You can also see from the picture that my beer is a little more clearer than lone pints but the color is pretty close. In the end, I don't think I would change my recipe. It is super tasty and finished a little dryer than Lone Pints which is fine by me. Maybe, I would not add any finings to leave it a little cloudy or not add whirl floc.

Here is my recipe for a 5 gallon batch.

Stove Top BIAB
70% Brewhouse Efficiency
90 Minute Boil

13lb Pilsner Malt

0.5oz Mosaic 30 Minutes
0.5oz Mosaic 15 Minutes
2oz Mosaic 10 Minutes
2oz Mosaic 5 Minutes
2oz Whirlpool at 170 Degrees
1.5oz Dry hop 3 days
1.5oz dry hop 3 days

Step Mash
15 Minutes at 104
15 Minutes at 122
30 Minutes at 140
30 Minutes at 158
10 Minutes at 170

US-05 Yeast

OG 1.069
FG 1.012 (Brewer's Friend said it should be 1.017)
7.48%
72 IBU

 

[TxBigHops]

Here is my take.

I followed the hopping schedule from TxBigHops. Pilsner malt utilizing multiple rests. I also used gelatin fining.

Finally had a chance to do a side by side. I have to say this recipe is very tasty and they are both very similar. I would say that Lone Pint is a little more bitter than TxBigHops hopping schedule. You can also see from the picture that my beer is a little more clearer than lone pints but the color is pretty close. In the end, I don't think I would change my recipe. It is super tasty and finished a little dryer than Lone Pints which is fine by me. Maybe, I would not add any finings to leave it a little cloudy or not add whirl floc.

Here is my recipe for a 5 gallon batch.

Stove Top BIAB
70% Brewhouse Efficiency
90 Minute Boil

13lb Pilsner Malt

0.5oz Mosaic 30 Minutes
0.5oz Mosaic 15 Minutes
2oz Mosaic 10 Minutes
2oz Mosaic 5 Minutes
2oz Whirlpool at 170 Degrees
1.5oz Dry hop 3 days
1.5oz dry hop 3 days

Step Mash
15 Minutes at 104
15 Minutes at 122
30 Minutes at 140
30 Minutes at 158
10 Minutes at 170

US-05 Yeast

OG 1.069
FG 1.012 (Brewer's Friend said it should be 1.017)
7.48%
72 IBU

Glad I could help and glad you have a successful brew! I never have gotten back to brewing this again. So many beers...

 

[Ike]

I did a Mosaic/ Maris Otter SMASH a few months ago, and LOVED it. Mashed at 155, Notty at 65 degrees. I kept the IBUs low, about 35 or so with additions only at 20, 10, and 5. I also skipped the dry hop and went with an ounce of hops in a liter of water at 160* for 30 mins as a tea, added right to the bottling bucket.

RESULTS: Insanely good. I don't think I did anything unusual, I'm posting here mostly because I didn't get any really heavy grapefruit hit from it. I'm NOT a fan of grapefruit flavors, so I'd notice it if it was there.

Probably the best batch I've ever brewed.

 

[512Hokie]

I've successfully cloned Yellow Rose after many tries

I brewed this beer back in mid-Jan. using NatureOfTheYeast's very detailed research/recipe (thanks for that, btw!), and I gotta say, he nailed it!

This was actually my very first all-grain brew and my first solo brew ever (I've only ever helped a buddy with his extract brews a couple of times)! Given this, my expectations weren't super high going into my first brewday, but I did a ton of research beforehand and spent a pretty good penny on some quality equipment after winning my Fantasy FB league this year, so I figured what the hey. I thought a SMaSH IPA would be a nice way to ease into the hobby and, being a hophead from Texas, I drink Yellow Rose weekly, so this seemed like a good place to start.

Recipe
I built my recipe in Brewer's Friend. My goal was 1.065 OG, 1.015 FG, with 66.74 IBUs (Rager) for a 6.6% beer. Yellow Rose, for comparison's sake, is 1.063 OG, 1.012 FG and 62 IBUs for a 6.8% beer, per the bottle.

Unlike NatureOfTheYeast, I did not have access to Lone Pint's house yeast, so I used WYeast 1056. He mentioned that Lone Pint's house yeast was very low flocculating, so I chose 1056 (this was a good choice, IMO).

Actual results below...

12 lbs. Weyermann German Pilsner Malt

Mosaic Hop Pellets at:
0.6 oz at 90' Boil (**on a 120' boil - see below)
1.0 oz at 20' Boil
1.4 oz at 10' Boil
2.0 oz for a 20' Whirlpool after cooling to 155 degrees
2.0 oz at Dryhop (5 Days) - Active Ferm was essentially done by this point
1 Whirlfloc tablet at 5' Boil

Water Profile
Ca: 128.0
Mg: 21.8
Na: 23.6
Cl: 52.0
SO4: 116.9
HCO: 72.4

Added 5g Gypsum and 3.5g slaked lime to tap water + 16.87ml Lactic Acid. After some reading, I decided that NOTY's SO4/Cl ratio seemed high. Yellow Rose isn't a bitter beer, so I went a bit lower on the scale, at 2.2 SO4/Cl.

Happy Mistakes

Being my first brew, it wasn't without boo-boos...

- I predicted 1.5 gallons of water loss to grain absorption. Don't remember where or why I got this number, but I ended up with way less, more like 1/2 gallon. Was still very close on my pre-boil gravity (1.046 predicted/1.045 actual = super high mash efficiency?). To account for this excess water, I ended up boiling for 120 minutes, instead of the suggested 90.

- I also had a Mash temperature oopsie. I heated to strike temp and doughed in. My dough-in was probably on the slow side. By the time I finished, my mash temp was at 147.7 (I was shooting for 150). I fired the burner back up and got it to what I thought was 150.5, at which point I cut the heat, wrapped, and walked away. Came back at 20 minutes to check temp and take pH sample and the temp was at 163F (WTF!). I stirred vigorously and added ice cubes to cool back down to 150.5, which took about 25 minutes.

- Ended up at 1.062 OG post-boil. Added my 1056 starter and set the ferm chamber temp to 64. I had very active fermentation by 18 hours. Fermentation was pretty well wrapped up by day 5, so I dry hopped and raised the temp to 70F and let it sit for a week. Cold crashed to 35F on day 12, and bottled on day 15. FG ended up at 1.015 (as predicted). ABV was a bit lower than expected thanks to the low OG. At 6.2% ABV, though, this was still a solid rookie effort.

Results

Even flat and sugary, the beer tasted great at bottling. I just went through 2x 22oz bottles tonight, 13 days post bottling, and it is so good right now. Like I mentioned before, I drink Yellow Rose pretty often, probably on an average of one 4-pack every two weeks, so I know this beer pretty well. My beer is so close that I'm not 100% convinced I could tell which one is the actual thing in a blind test. I may also be very biased!

Pictures

My Beer

Actual Yellow Rose For Reference

 

[laserwash]

Regarding special yeast:

My wife and I bought a 4 pack of yellow rose at total wine this weekend. I noticed that the bottles have a very heavy sediment in the bottom. Anyone thought about/tried to harvest the yeast from the bottle yet?

 

[thekraken]

Regarding special yeast:

My wife and I bought a 4 pack of yellow rose at total wine this weekend. I noticed that the bottles have a very heavy sediment in the bottom. Anyone thought about/tried to harvest the yeast from the bottle yet?

Well I've thought about it, just yesterday in fact! But I hadn't done it (yet) so I'm no help. I do hope to try if I can get ahold of me than one bottle at a time. This stuff is tasty.

 

[jimmypop13]

Anyone figure out the yeast yet? I'm wondering if it could be bry-97

 

[Southern_Junior]

the bottle claims to have not been filtered. Anybody ever try to grow it from a commercial bottle?

 

[laserwash]

Poured a bottle last night. Put starter wort in a bottle with an ounce of Yellow Rose left in the bottle. We'll see if something gets propped up.

 

[laserwash]

Poured a bottle last night. Put starter wort in a bottle with an ounce of Yellow Rose left in the bottle. We'll see if something gets propped up.

I drained the bottle last night and then filled it with more starter wort. This morning I whirled it and the foil was giving off a hissing noise and foaming quite a bit.

Gentlemen, I have a Yellow Rose yeast culture.

 

[Southern_Junior]

So I dropped the dregs of a couple(4, but let's just say a good night) bottles into a flask with some starter wort. Everything was going well...

After about a week on the stir plate and two additions of wort, it turned a dark dark color. Do I worry?

 

[SevenOaks]

What's the big deal about the Yellow Rose yeast? The most wonderful thing about this Mosaic SMaSH is the Mosaic hops shining through. WLP001 or any clean yeast contributes to that end best, IMHO.

 

[jammin]

What's the big deal about the Yellow Rose yeast? The most wonderful thing about this Mosaic SMaSH is the Mosaic hops shining through. WLP001 or any clean yeast contributes to that end best, IMHO.

it's practically old news these days that yeast impacts hop character dramatically & the combination of esters with hop aroma/flavor can define an IPA. with that in mind, it should be no surprise that people are placing high importance on this.

..fwiw, the pessimist (perhaps realist?) in me thinks that cloning an IPA might be an uphill battle as we will never have access to the quality of hops that pro breweries with contracts have. if so, a single hop IPA might be even that much harder to really dial in.

 

[Southern_Junior]

What's the big deal about the Yellow Rose yeast? The most wonderful thing about this Mosaic SMaSH is the Mosaic hops shining through. WLP001 or any clean yeast contributes to that end best, IMHO.

the appeal to me is more to clone a great beer. not make a SMaSH. Yellow rose is such a smooth drinking ipa that i want it on hand and I can easily judge my brewing ability next to a great "control" element.

 

[Tommydee]

Anyone try wyeast 1968 yet? (English ale). My cousin from Houston loves this beer, and my free mosaic cryo hops (AHA giveaway) are burning a hole in my freezer! I'm just looking at pics with a slight haze, seeing some resemblance to my best ever beer to date, a Zombie dust clone, which also uses 1968. If, no, I'll be the guinea pig. Sorry of it's in here and I missed it.

 

[jready]

Anyone try wyeast 1968 yet? (English ale). My cousin from Houston loves this beer, and my free mosaic cryo hops (AHA giveaway) are burning a hole in my freezer! I'm just looking at pics with a slight haze, seeing some resemblance to my best ever beer to date, a Zombie dust clone, which also uses 1968. If, no, I'll be the guinea pig. Sorry of it's in here and I missed it.

Haven’t used it but it should work well. I just did another 10 gallon batch of this using cryo for the dry hop and London Ale 3. Super tasty big thing in my opinion is to do a 90 min boil with all Pilsner. Shared this batch for Halloween and game 6 last night. Only 3 gallons left!

 

[Tommydee]

Just sampled at day 9 using 1968, prior to dry hop. Damn it's good. It seems done, at 1.014, started at 1.058 for 5.9%. I did a 800 mL vitality starter, and hit the wort with O2 per Normal, and it tore right through 65-68 F. Tempted to skip the dry hop...but did it anyways. I went wit 3 oz pellets for the boil additions, an ounce cryo whirlpool/10 minute hop stand at 175ish, and 1 oz cryo dry hop. I will keg this Wednesday, and should have tasting notes from my cousin in about 3 weeks. He's the expert, I've got nothing to compare it to...

I seem to be on this kick of brewing clones of beers that are so good you can't get them, and enjoying them without really caring how close it is!

 

[Red04]

First time brewing. Followed recipe here. Kegged it yesterday. Beer has a really bitter after taste. Anyone find this beer mellows with time?

I may have underpitched the yeast. It took about 30 hours to get going.

 

[Tommydee]

Just sampled at day 9 using 1968, prior to dry hop. Damn it's good. ....

Results are in from Texas. My cousin says we nailed it, likes my version a bit better. As you can see from the pic, 1968 dropped pretty clear, also perhaps use of cryohops in the dry hop may have helped. My keg is about to run out, will be making this again early spring.

 

[jready]

First time brewing. Followed recipe here. Kegged it yesterday. Beer has a really bitter after taste. Anyone find this beer mellows with time?

I may have underpitched the yeast. It took about 30 hours to get going.

I find Mosaic can get grassy/bitter this is a house brew and is usually on tap I’ve gone to warrior for bittering then mosaic additions at flame out and whirlpool the dry hop.

 

[jready]

Also 90 min boil in my opinion makes a huge difference. I think Lone Pint has moved away from this and the beer has suffered. Just my opinion though

 

[Red04]

Also 90 min boil in my opinion makes a huge difference. I think Lone Pint has moved away from this and the beer has suffered. Just my opinion though

Lone pint no longer does a 90 minute boil? Is this a recent development?

I just grabbed some bottled 12/11/17 and it tastes significantly different that what I bought that was bottled on November.

Also 90 min boil in my opinion makes a huge difference. I think Lone Pint has moved away from this and the beer has suffered. Just my opinion though

 

[jready]

Lone pint no longer does a 90 minute boil? Is this a recent development?

I just grabbed some bottled 12/11/17 and it tastes significantly different that what I bought that was bottled on November.

That is what I have heard but totally not verified so take it for what it is worth. I have family and friends in Houston and always get YR when there and I noticed the difference. A friend is the one who mentioned the shorter boil

 

[Ike]

As soon as I can rally myself to step out into the sub-freezing temperatures, I'll be brewing this again today. I find the notes about the 90 minute boil interesting: I've never seemed to need the 90 minutes on a Maris Otter SMASH, BUT hey, it's just a little water and I'm not running against the clock today so maybe I'll give it a shot! I'll boil for 90, use the extra time to do crap around the house, and bump the volume back up after the boil. I won't be able to give you any truly useful notes on the taste difference between the 60- and 90-minute boil since the last batch was so long ago but maybe it'll make a 90-minute convert out of me!

 

[Tommydee]

Probably the 90 minutes boil is more for those using 100% pils, which is what I understand Lonestar uses. Not sure boiling Maris Otter that long will do much good.

 

[ba-brewer]

I heard somewhere a 90 minute boil is suppose to also help with shelf life stability, but don't recall the specifics. I drink my beer fast enough to not have to worry about that.