Fermentation Chiller

user 574 · Apr 29, 2005

tnlandsailor said:
Fermentation is definitely the key to a great beer; particularly primary fermentation temperature. The ability to control your fermentation temperature has a PROFOUND impact on your beer. Much more so than almost any other brewing parameter.

However, I have to take exception to the notion that as long as your ingredients are "reasonably" fresh, your ingredient choices don't matter. Brewer's make WORT, yeast makes BEER. You have to give your yeast the right thing to ferment, or else you won't get what you want. Different ingredients do different things, therefore your results will vary quite a bit with your ingredient choices.

On a side note, there is a great homemade tool to control fermentation temps called a Fermentation Chiller. I've used one (actually two) for 4 years now and I can tell you it is fabulous. By far the biggest improvement to my beers has been a direct result of controlling the fermentation temperature. Check out my website under "Other Gadgets" for photos and a link for detailed instructions on how to build one.

Prost,

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com

user 574 · Apr 29, 2005

I located it. Click here for instructions. They're extremely detailed even down to part #'s at radio shack etc. 14 pages worth in Acrobat fashion. The guy touts keeping at 60f stable temp in his garage in summer at 95f. $60-70 avg. to build.

(I think I feel sick and need to leave work now).

user 574 · Apr 29, 2005

As a heads up for those intrigued on building one of these. You can get these fans at a computer store as well or better yet, take one out of an old computer like I just did at work (I am a computer geek). Also on the 12v DC converter; everyone usually has these laying around wondering what it once powered. As long as the label states 12v dc output it'll work.

I think I have an old thermostat at home and already have an indoor/outdoor thermometer as well. All I need is the wallboard! (and a truck to bring it home )

user 574 · Apr 29, 2005

Hey TNLandSailor,

I went to a Lowes and Home Depot and they had 2" Polystyrene but it wasn't of the extruded sort; basically just looked like 2" thick styrofoam. In looking at your picture you had pink stuff. Would you recommend extruded for sure?

Also, you had some plywood on the floor for the fermenter; assume that was to minimize denting from the carboy weight...

Going to build mine this weekend if I can locate the extruded (if necessary).

user 574 · Apr 29, 2005

FYI,
They don't sell Extruded Polystyrene at my local Home Depot and Lowes. I had to make calls to local insulation companies and found two that sell it in 4'x8'x2" sections locally.

Dude · Apr 29, 2005

desertBrew said:
FYI,
They don't sell Extruded Polystyrene at my local Home Depot and Lowes. I had to make calls to local insulation companies and found two that sell it in 4'x8'x2" sections locally.

Keep up the good work man!

I'm watching this thread like a hawk until you get all the dirty work done.

I'm gonna do this as soon as you get yours done, maybe you can post some pics of the build process, and post any problems/solutions you run across. I've got big-time worries about brewing this summer, and this looks/sounds like a perfect solution.

tnlandsailor · May 2, 2005

The pink stuff is what they use on homes and buildings and such. I've seen the other type, the white stuff they make styrofoam cups from. I wouldn't use that, I'm afraid it wouldn't hold up very well. The extruded polystyrene has a pretty dense foam structure and holds up really well. I would look for this type. It may come in a different color besides pink, but you can definitely tell the difference between it and regular styrofoam.

Yes, I put some plywood on the floor of the carboy chamber because I was worried about the weight of the carboy denting the floor. I think this is a good idea.

If you are planning to build one of these and have access to a table saw, I think this would really make your job easier. Square and accurate cuts are the key to getting this thing to go together right. Also, I think you could leave out the little rods that are mentioned in the instructions to hold the lid and front in place. Mine seems to fit snugly enough without them.

user 574 · May 3, 2005

Well, it's done. I took some pics and slapped together some web pages on prices, supplies. Sorry the site is a little slow but my upload speed isn't so hot at the house...

Think it turned out great however and have an ESB 'chillin' inside.

BBQBrew · May 3, 2005

Will this type of cooler work in a garage in the Texas summer?? 90 plus degrees!!!

user 574 · May 3, 2005

I believe I read in the instructions that the guy who created this lives in the desert somewhere and ferments in his garage when it's 95+. I got another 20 days or so before we're at a consistent daytime temp of 100+ for the next 3 months so I'll let everyone know of performance. We do cool off nice at night here though to mid-upper 60's

I'm keeping mine in the garage... worst case scenario is you have to have more ice than 2 jugs in it and change more often but I'm sure it'll function just fine.

tnlandsailor · May 9, 2005

Nice job desertBrew! Your chiller looks perfect. I think the photos you took will go a long way to show others how the thing goes together. Your question about how to get the cans in and out easier: if you look the photos I pasted at http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/FermentationChiller.html down at the bottom, I glued in some pieces of molding about a foot long into diagonally opposite corners of both ice chambers, then laid a piece of stainless tubing across the top. The jugs then sit on top of the tubing, elevated a foot off the bottom. This makes them easier to get to and I also think they cool a little better this way. I've got some other pointers on this page as well. I also recommend dropping a kitchen towel into the bottom of each ice chamber to catch the condensation from the jugs. This enclosed space will mold quickly if you don't get the moisture out. Change the towels when you change the jugs.

Regarding performance in hot places, it's just a matter of how hot. In a 90 F room, with 4 jugs, you can easily get an air temperature inside the chiller of 60 - 65 F, you will just have to keep an eye on the jugs and change them out at least every 2 days depending on what the temperature in the ambient room does. Just keep an eye on the internal air temp, when the fan starts running continuously, or the air temp starts to climb and can't be brought down, it's time for new jugs.

Prosit,

user 574 · May 9, 2005

Thanks, pictures are a good thing...

I haven't done any mods yet to the ice chambers as I didn't want to do anything permanent until I used it for a while. I'm not complaining but it "still" hasn't been warm here yet (low 80s) and wasn't sure how well it's going to work when it's 100+ in the garage. I guess if it gets so hot that 4 jugs can't keep up I'll have to bring it indoors (wife would not be happy). I really don't have room for 8 jugs (4 in chiller/4 freezer) rotating so hoping 2 switched daily would suffice. We shall see when that time comes as it always does

After using it for about a week now it is a great thing!!

I tossed a secondary ferm almost complete in there as soon as I was done building it for the heck of it. The real test is the next batch. I just brewed a Hefe this past Sat and the inner temp is set for about 64 and the thermometer on the fermenter is at 68 (supposedly optimum for WL hefe yeast). Changing the 2 ice containers every two days is doing fine at about 85 max outside. Fan goes on/off every 5m or so at this temp.

FYI - plastic Folgers cans suck; hard to get a hand on em to pull in/out. Might drop and damage; need bottles with handles. I don't have anything but milk jugs yet so was concerned of them breaking though. With that I like your concept with the molding and dowels and will retrofit this week. Great idea on the towels. Will do that as well. No humidity here yet but it does come in Jul-Aug where condensation will be an issue.

Thanks for your help!

tnlandsailor · May 9, 2005

I had a real problem with milk jugs. They just didn't hold up to repeated freezings and thawings. Found out the hard way that they split open (it wasn't pretty). As a counter measure, I put them into gallon sized zip lock bags (a very snug fit, the seal will not close) which helped a bit, but my final solution was to use some heavy duty plastic jugs I found at www.usplastic.com. Part #66152. So far, these have worked very well, no splitting. The thicker plastic insulates a bit more so they don't chill quite as well, but the ice in them lasts just a bit longer.

homebrewer_99 · May 9, 2005

tnlandsailor said:
I had a real problem with milk jugs. They just didn't hold up to repeated freezings and thawings. Found out the hard way that they split open (it wasn't pretty). As a counter measure, I put them into gallon sized zip lock bags (a very snug fit, the seal will not close) which helped a bit

The trick is water/ice will flow toward the path of least resistance. When water freezes it will push out as well as up. Next time just don't fill your container to the top and leave the top off so the ice can move upward as it expands.

The baggie is also a good idea, BTW.

user 574 · May 9, 2005

tnlandsailor said:
my final solution was to use some heavy duty plastic jugs I found at www.usplastic.com. Part #66152. So far, these have worked very well, no splitting. The thicker plastic insulates a bit more so they don't chill quite as well, but the ice in them lasts just a bit longer.

If you get a chance, could you measure the height of those bottles? I pulled the ice maker not in use out of my spare fridg/freezer and is where I'm putting the bottles to freeze and is just high enough to house two milk jugs. Anything taller and I'd have to pull the shelf out then listen to the "wrath of wife" on taking the whole thing over

Dude · May 10, 2005

DB--That thing looks awesome! You did a great job. Also many props for the website instructions, especially the parts/materials list. I'm really gonna love that when it comes time to build my own.

I just got done making my own wort chiller (immersion) and the next project is a couple of cooler "tuns" to complete my transfer to all-grain brewing. Once I start experimenting more with my own recipes, the fermentation chiller will definitely be a project I have to do.

Great job bro.

tnlandsailor · May 10, 2005

Regardless of the room you leave in your milk jugs for expansion, the sides still balloon quite a bit. At freezer temps, the plastic in the milk jugs becomes almost brittle, or at least at lot less flexible that it is at room temp. I surmize that the reduced flexibility of the thin plastic and the ballooning effect of the walls caused a crack and subsequent leak which I conveniently found after the jug melted

. Just be forewarned. The zip lock trick is ok as a temporary fix, but don't rely on it for your final solution.

I'll try to remember to measure the jugs I got from US Plastics and post the measurements. I know they are just a bit taller than the milk jugs.

user 574 · May 10, 2005

ORRELSE said:
I just got done making my own wort chiller (immersion) and the next project is a couple of cooler "tuns" to complete my transfer to all-grain brewing. Once I start experimenting more with my own recipes, the fermentation chiller will definitely be a project I have to do.
Great job bro.

I haven't used nor have a wort chiller yet. Was sticking the kettle in the pool when it was 50 degree water but that's getting warmer now. Building your own wort chiller; I thought I heard it isn't any cheaper than purchasing. What did you use & costs?

user 574 · May 10, 2005

tnlandsailor said:
I'll try to remember to measure the jugs I got from US Plastics and post the measurements. I know they are just a bit taller than the milk jugs.

Thanks, I thought they looked a wee bit taller...

homebrewer_99 · May 10, 2005

tnlandsailor said:
Regardless of the room you leave in your milk jugs for expansion, the sides still balloon quite a bit. At freezer temps, the plastic in the milk jugs becomes almost brittle, or at least at lot less flexible that it is at room temp. I surmize that the reduced flexibility of the thin plastic and the ballooning effect of the walls caused a crack and subsequent leak which I conveniently found after the jug melted .

You're probably more right that you know.

I never let mine freeze to that point, just a bit on the surface. I've had them for about a year now (about 10-11 of them) and had only 1 leak.

Dude · May 10, 2005

desertBrew said:
I haven't used nor have a wort chiller yet. Was sticking the kettle in the pool when it was 50 degree water but that's getting warmer now. Building your own wort chiller; I thought I heard it isn't any cheaper than purchasing. What did you use & costs?

I had almost everything I needed for it in my garage, minus the copper tubing. I found a 50' roll of 3/8 tubing at a local Ace hardware for $22.50, and a tube bending spring for $2.79 at the same place. I had 2 worm clamps and I cut an old garden hose in long enough pieces with the connections still on it. One of the hose pieces is long enough to go out my patio door, while the other is only about 6 inches long and connects to the kitchen faucet with a small faucet adapter. Your methods may very, but your total cost could be less than 30 dollars. Most 50 foot chillers you find in catalogs are upwards of $50 bucks (some are $60 or more!), so with very little time and effort, and at significant savings, mine was done. If you can do that fine fermentation chiller, you can certainly make a wort chiller!

user 574 · May 20, 2005

Little update on the fermentation chiller:

I started swapping ice out daily (2 containers) about a week ago whilst in the 90's and there was still a baseball size chunk-o-ice in there each eve. Still was in the low 60's inside and fan wasn't running constantly.

Haven't gotten home yet to check the ice however it hit 104 today. 108 for Sat and 110 for Sun.

That's abnormally warm for this time of year and about as hot as it ever gets.

This is the test...

BBQBrew · May 20, 2005

We hit 95 today in Texas and I have to change the 2 plastic Folgers cans each day. I now have 3 cans in the chiller....should last alittle longer. Overall it works great....keeping my ale at 70F with no problem.

user 574 · May 23, 2005

Hey BBQBrew. Glad to hear it's working for you as well. You just build it or been using one for a while?

BTW - We were at 108, 109, 107 the last three days and It's kept at 65 (what I was aiming for) no problem with 2 cans and the fan isn't running constantly. Just change them each day. Great idea! Love it and a heck of a lot better than jury rigging wet towels and fans etc.

Only problem I see myself building another one down the road so I can get back to two batches going but have to get creative with my space...

LandSailor: I did your 1/4 round dowels in the chambers. Works great and now the plastic folger cans are working just fine.

BBQBrew · May 24, 2005

Just built it...and this is my 1st HomeBrew!!!

kilroy · May 24, 2005

WOW !!

Well Living in the Desert's of Western Colorado, we are already up in the steady 90's during the day. I have had my Swamp Cooler running for about a month already to keep my wine cool, so I guess I will just have to give this a try.

I guess another plus is that it will be a Dark Temperature controlled environment, which is awesome for wine.

Perhaps if a Wine Forum Mod is reading this - could you put a sticky note in the wine forum with a link to this post?

Thanks for the info, and I will definately take pics as I Build.

Kilroy

kilroy · May 24, 2005

One Question I do have though, is the airflow.

Looking at the pic's and the diagrams, I can see the cut outs, and one of them has a fan - no prob there. The other side though is sealed by the lid, and there does not seem to be anywhere to pull the heated air over the other ice bottle?

Perhaps I am reading too much into it, and I should just build one, Perhaps it is not completely air tight. Perhaps the dividing wall between the two ice partitions would benefit by adding a window at/near the bottom. This would force the hot air - pulled in to one chamber, to then be cycled down and then over the other bottle, and then out throught the fan over the carboy.

Like I said perhaps I am reading too much into it, but that is the way my brain works.

Kilroy

BBQBrew · May 24, 2005

kilroy,

The divider wall between the ice chambers doesn't go all the way to the bottom. Ice bottles/cans on one side...fan on the other pulls the air down over the ice and up and thru to the carboy.

Works like a charm! You can really bring down the temp fast...I have been very impressed with how little the fan comes on to keep the temp below 70 in a garage that is well over 90!

kilroy · May 24, 2005

Awesome -

Thanks for the update.

Also - I think in your pic's you have some steel pipe or something that raises the ice-bottles up.

I was thinking some 1/2 inch pvc and a X adapter, stick 4 pieces of the PVC and you got a nice plastic (non rusting

) stand for the ice bottles.

Kilroy

user 574 · May 24, 2005

Think you were looking at tnlandsailor's site as I added that retrofit later. Anyhow, I added the little 12" 1/4 round dowels on the bottom of the ice chambers (glued) on 2 sides of the square opposite and then I just rest 5/16 dowels I had as spare stock from the top & front locks on the top of them to elevate the ice containers. Only reason to do it is to make it easier to get them out. Also, you want it so it is temporary so you can add more than 1 ice container per side if needed (underneath the dowels). I wouldn't do this part until you build the basic unit then it'll make sense. Thats what I did...

Hotter than the blazes today (105+ whatever). I had less than a cocktail cube in the bucket by the time I got home. Was still at 68. 1 day is all you'll get with 2 when it's this friggin hot. I change it out at night.

Fermentation Chiller

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