I have done both with great results but lately I have been adding it to the starter.
Use LME.
How to make a yeast starter - Pictorial
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I have done both with great results but lately I have been adding it to the starter.
Use LME.
Hi there.
I will describe what I do, which might not be the "right" way of doing, if such a thing exists.
I use DME (Dried Malt Extract) to do my starters. I never used anything else - it is easy to take only the quantity I want, and is easy to store and manipulate. So, using the Pictoral recipe at the begining of this thread, I normaly start right off with 4 cups of water, 1 cup of DME.
Once cooled, I pitch in my liquid yeast and a bit of nutrient. I made myslef a stirplate which I use, but I don't leave it on all the time. I normaly start it for about 1/2 hour, and then turn it off. Whenever I pass by, I turn it on again for another 1/2 hour.
After 48-72 hours, I put it in the fridge to let it separate. The next day, I remove the liquid part, only keeping the white paste at the bottom, and I do another starter as described above.
Usually after my second starter, I have enough to fill in 6 to 8 WhiteLabs tubes I got for previous breweing sessions which I kept. With these test tubes, I never had - so far at least - to do a starter to pitch in a 5gal batch...
I always keep one tube to do a new starter to "multiply" my yeast and allow me to always keep a decent quantity.
Hope this helps you.
BTW, so far, I never kept a tube for more than 6 months, but doing a starter every once in a while allows me to refresh my base yeast. Also, I never did a strater from the yeast cake of a brewing session, but I did once from a cultured bottle of Blanche de Chambly, which turned out pretty good.
...but the best way is to experiment. What might have worked for me might not work for you, but the general guidelines will aim you in the right direction.
Good luck, and don't forget to have fun while doing it!
I will describe what I do, which might not be the "right" way of doing, if such a thing exists.
I use DME (Dried Malt Extract) to do my starters. I never used anything else - it is easy to take only the quantity I want, and is easy to store and manipulate. So, using the Pictoral recipe at the begining of this thread, I normaly start right off with 4 cups of water, 1 cup of DME.
Once cooled, I pitch in my liquid yeast and a bit of nutrient. I made myslef a stirplate which I use, but I don't leave it on all the time. I normaly start it for about 1/2 hour, and then turn it off. Whenever I pass by, I turn it on again for another 1/2 hour.
After 48-72 hours, I put it in the fridge to let it separate. The next day, I remove the liquid part, only keeping the white paste at the bottom, and I do another starter as described above.
Usually after my second starter, I have enough to fill in 6 to 8 WhiteLabs tubes I got for previous breweing sessions which I kept. With these test tubes, I never had - so far at least - to do a starter to pitch in a 5gal batch...
I always keep one tube to do a new starter to "multiply" my yeast and allow me to always keep a decent quantity.
Hope this helps you.
BTW, so far, I never kept a tube for more than 6 months, but doing a starter every once in a while allows me to refresh my base yeast. Also, I never did a strater from the yeast cake of a brewing session, but I did once from a cultured bottle of Blanche de Chambly, which turned out pretty good.
...but the best way is to experiment. What might have worked for me might not work for you, but the general guidelines will aim you in the right direction.
Good luck, and don't forget to have fun while doing it!
Uh... Why? The purpose of a stir plate is continuous movement and O2 introduction. If you leave it running continuously you'll likely finish out a starter in 24hrs.
Jukas.
I somewhat agree with you, but my stirplate is not working as I would like.
The computer fan I used is off balance with the magnet I glued on it, and I did not have an erlenmayer (or whatever you call this thing in english), so I am using a pyrex coffee pot. My stirbar starts everyonce in a while to be off "balance" and it stops turning properly. I am not sure what is the trouble : the fan, the pot, the stirbar, or something else.
Also, when turning, the stirbar - which is not exactly round shaped, but bevelled (looks like this one http://www.uwplatt.edu/chemep/chem/chemscape/labdocs/catofp/mixpour/mixing/hp_ms/pic/stirbar2.jpg) - always makes a bit of ticking noise, so leaving it on at all time is disturbing, specialy during night.
If you have ideas of what might go wrong, let me know!
I somewhat agree with you, but my stirplate is not working as I would like.
The computer fan I used is off balance with the magnet I glued on it, and I did not have an erlenmayer (or whatever you call this thing in english), so I am using a pyrex coffee pot. My stirbar starts everyonce in a while to be off "balance" and it stops turning properly. I am not sure what is the trouble : the fan, the pot, the stirbar, or something else.
Also, when turning, the stirbar - which is not exactly round shaped, but bevelled (looks like this one http://www.uwplatt.edu/chemep/chem/chemscape/labdocs/catofp/mixpour/mixing/hp_ms/pic/stirbar2.jpg) - always makes a bit of ticking noise, so leaving it on at all time is disturbing, specialy during night.
If you have ideas of what might go wrong, let me know!
Ahh, now I understand better. Balance seems to be one of the banes of homemade stirplates. I'm still fighting with it on mine
I can't turn the speed up past 1/4 on a 1L starter or 1/2 on a 2L starter before it throws the bar. As for the dreaded ticking noise, that's an easy fix. My wife complained mightily about it as I run my stirplate in the kitchen. In the end two of the smallest diameter o-rings in a keg o-ring kit (1/4" I think?) fixed it, I've attached a pic of my stirbar for ya.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
Love the o-ring idea. I just got my stir-plate and notices the ticking sound during my test-run. I'll have to see if I have a couple of o-rings in my gear, else it's off to the LHBS!
Klickmania
Well-Known Member
I've never made a starter, and it looks fairly simple so I figured I'd give it a try. Mr. Malty is calling for me to use a starter that's 1.8L for Wyeast 1056 american IPA. And I only bought enough DME to put into my actual recipe. Am I going to see a significant drop in O.G. points by having to dip into my supply to step up to 1.8L? Or should I just make a 1L starter and pitch the whole jug and hope for the best? I know I'll technically be underpitching, but I've had great results by just using the smack pack by itself. Figured making a smaller starter is better then not having one at all. Or am I selling myself short here? Thanks in advance guys! 
Klickmania
Well-Known Member
Ok great! That way I'll only be taking that 1/2 cup of extract and I'll be putting back into the batch. Instead of taking a whole half pound and dumping it. I have 6 pounds of it so its not a huge issue, just wanted to be sure that it wasn't stupid to underpitch.
hops2it
Well-Known Member
I'm not QUITE understanding the science behind the starter. I'm looking at my current recipe in Beersmith. I'm using US-05 which I ended up pitching 2 packs of it dry because the starter thing was confusing me.
So trying to discern this after the fact and for my future benefit, it says I need a 225 billion cells. It also says my recommended starter size is 1.55 liters. So here's my specific questions:
1.) Are they assuming I'm adding a given amount of DME to make this starter?
2.)Should you ever vary the amount of DME based on size of starter or is there a one size fits all solution?
3.) Is there any way to make a proper starter for this beer in a 1L flask because that's what I have?
4.) Are there certain situations/beers where starters are highly recommended versus hydrating dry yeast or just pitching it dry in the first place?
I just can't imagine the need to make a starter over 1L in size but perhaps I need to reconsider idk. And also, yeast isn't exactly the most expensive thing in the world so if all I'm gaining here is the potential to use 1 pack vs. 2 packs, I may be less interested in starters. But if there's other serious advantages, I'm far more interested. I tried to weed my way through this thread but it's got kind of long so I'm hoping someone might bottom line me.
So trying to discern this after the fact and for my future benefit, it says I need a 225 billion cells. It also says my recommended starter size is 1.55 liters. So here's my specific questions:
1.) Are they assuming I'm adding a given amount of DME to make this starter?
2.)Should you ever vary the amount of DME based on size of starter or is there a one size fits all solution?
3.) Is there any way to make a proper starter for this beer in a 1L flask because that's what I have?
4.) Are there certain situations/beers where starters are highly recommended versus hydrating dry yeast or just pitching it dry in the first place?
I just can't imagine the need to make a starter over 1L in size but perhaps I need to reconsider idk. And also, yeast isn't exactly the most expensive thing in the world so if all I'm gaining here is the potential to use 1 pack vs. 2 packs, I may be less interested in starters. But if there's other serious advantages, I'm far more interested. I tried to weed my way through this thread but it's got kind of long so I'm hoping someone might bottom line me.
Hi hops2it.
I will try my best to answer your questions, but like I said before, I'm no expert. This is what I have been able to figure out by what I read an what people told me.
First of all, starters are for liquid yeast only. What are the reasons for this? I can't remember unfortunately, but I have read the reason somewhere.
The goal of a starter is to put your yeast in an active state so the fermentation of your wort will start faster. When you get you yeast, it has been sitting there for a little while in a close to dormant state. Doing a starter allows it to get in shape and start doing it's work. You do it in a small quantity of "light beer" made out of either LME or DME so that it can get used to work in this kind of environnement.
For the above reason, your starter should have the same OG range as your beer - the visual recipe at the beginning of this thread will yeld somethin around 1,040 OG, which should be close enough to most regular beer.
The size of your start depends on who you talk to. Some recommend to do huge starters, some say today's liquid yeast are strong enough, etc.
One thing I strongly suggest though is that if you create a strong beer - over 1,060 OG - you should do a starter to multiply the number or yeast cells you have because some will die when the alcohol level get's higher.
Hope this helps!
I will try my best to answer your questions, but like I said before, I'm no expert. This is what I have been able to figure out by what I read an what people told me.
First of all, starters are for liquid yeast only. What are the reasons for this? I can't remember unfortunately, but I have read the reason somewhere.
The goal of a starter is to put your yeast in an active state so the fermentation of your wort will start faster. When you get you yeast, it has been sitting there for a little while in a close to dormant state. Doing a starter allows it to get in shape and start doing it's work. You do it in a small quantity of "light beer" made out of either LME or DME so that it can get used to work in this kind of environnement.
For the above reason, your starter should have the same OG range as your beer - the visual recipe at the beginning of this thread will yeld somethin around 1,040 OG, which should be close enough to most regular beer.
The size of your start depends on who you talk to. Some recommend to do huge starters, some say today's liquid yeast are strong enough, etc.
One thing I strongly suggest though is that if you create a strong beer - over 1,060 OG - you should do a starter to multiply the number or yeast cells you have because some will die when the alcohol level get's higher.
Hope this helps!
Starters are generally only for liquid yeast. Simply rehydrate your dry yeast as directed (I like to add in a little Go Ferm, but YMMV) and pitch. Dry yeast is so cheap that if you need a higher volume of yeast you can just buy another pack.
As for your questions above....
1) Yes, they're assuming you've made a starter of your desired gravity. www.yeastcalc.com can tell you how much DME to add to X volume to hit Y gravity.
2) You can step up starters, but that takes additional time. Finish your 1L starter and put in fridge 24hrs then decant off most of the liquid, then warm the slurry to pitching temps. Make another starter and when wort is chilled to pitching temps add it back to the 1L flask and put it back on your stir plate. It's a PITA but doable until you buy a 2L and 5L flask.
4) I don't use dry yeast, but unless you'd need more than say 4 packets of 11g each it's probably not worth it to make a starter. According to Mr. Malty calcs up to 1.10 OG in a 6 gal batch would only need 2 packets of 11g each.
Just rehydrate, save your starters for when using liquid yeasts
My goal of a starter is to have the yeast already through the majority of their reproducing phase so that when added to the actual wort they can get straight to work. By pitching proper quantities I get faster ferments.. a 6 gal batch of 1.060 Pale Ale I just did, finished primary fermentation in 2 days.
I respectfully disagree here. I never want a starter over 1.040 as I want the yeast reproducing and healthy, not stressed from trying to convert a high gravity starter.
IMHO you should shoot for a starter in the 1.030 - 1.037 range. When doing a stepped starter I'll often make the final step lower, around 1.025 to give the yeast a quick reproduction burst without stressing them out trying to poop out alcohol.
hops2it
Well-Known Member
Thanks to you both. That yeastcalc link is the ticket, really helped me to understand once I plugged my numbers in there. Appreciate the advice.
I made my first starter last night after reading and re-reading this thread to get the full gist of what to do. I have one question that I haven't seen asked yet on here. What am I looking for once the starter has been going to make sure my yeasties are active and reproducing?
What I see so far is a whitish layer on the bottom of my growler, a little, thin patch of white foam on the surface of the starter and the on the very top of the "beer" is an clear layer of liquid. Here's a pic of the starter at roughly 12 hours.
I give it a little whirl whenever I walk by it which mixes it all back up and causes about an inch of fast receding foam.
I'm thinking that this is what I want to happen, but would love to get a bit of confirmation.
Thanks and Cheers!
What I see so far is a whitish layer on the bottom of my growler, a little, thin patch of white foam on the surface of the starter and the on the very top of the "beer" is an clear layer of liquid. Here's a pic of the starter at roughly 12 hours.
I give it a little whirl whenever I walk by it which mixes it all back up and causes about an inch of fast receding foam.
I'm thinking that this is what I want to happen, but would love to get a bit of confirmation.
Thanks and Cheers!
Zoltanar said:
It does not hurt to make a starter with dry yeast as well. Making the starter guarantees that you have viable yeast and helps to prevent under pitching. I'm no expert but i find my brews benefit from making starters regardless of dry or liquid yeast. They kick off faster and seem to ferment better.
scottab said:
You can ensure viability with dry yeast by rehydrating, and can give it a head start by using a product like goferm. 20min vs 24hrs for a starter. There's nothing wrong with making a starter for dry, but it's usually so cheap that you can just pitch an extra packet.
Jukas said:
The following info is from the make beer at home website:
http://www.makebeerathome.info/homebrew-articles/97-liquid-dry-yeast
Dry yeast is inexpensive, convenient, hardy and does not require a starter. However most experts agree that a starter would be beneficial when using a dry yeast. A simple starter to rehydrate your dry yeast is available right in your brew kettle. A starter will create a larger number of yeast cells that are added to the wort resulting in a more efficient the fermentation process. A more efficient fermentation results in a better quality beer with less likeliness of contamination. To create a starter simply remove 1 cup of wort 30 minutes before the end of the boil and allow to cool in a covered container. Add the dry yeast and allow 10-30 minutes to proof. After this time the yeast should be visibly churning and/or foaming, and is ready to pitch. I also find the addition of a good yeast nutrient to your wort to be very beneficial. The best nutrient is actually dead yeast cells in the form of Vegemite or Marmite yeast extracts. The addition of a yeast nutrient to wort promotes a healthy and hearty fermentation resulting in a beer with a lower final gravity. You can use the trub from your kettle as an excellent yeast nutrient.
tre9er
Well-Known Member
Just used this tutorial the other night to make starters from harvested yeast. I had two jars of washed WLP001 that were split from a cake used to ferment a very low gravity lawnmower beer. The harvest was only 2-3 days old, but I was making a double batch of 1.074 IIPA.
I boiled 0.2lb. of DME in a quart of water for 15 minutes or so, then cooled to ~72* (temp yeast was warmed to after sitting out for a few hours) and decanted and pitched slurry. Next morning I had stuff running down the sides and lots of visible activity despite no stir-bar, etc. Of course, these were fresh slurries.
Pitched each into ~4g of 1.074 wort about 16 hours after starters were made and they started immediately chugging. :rockin:
I boiled 0.2lb. of DME in a quart of water for 15 minutes or so, then cooled to ~72* (temp yeast was warmed to after sitting out for a few hours) and decanted and pitched slurry. Next morning I had stuff running down the sides and lots of visible activity despite no stir-bar, etc. Of course, these were fresh slurries.
Pitched each into ~4g of 1.074 wort about 16 hours after starters were made and they started immediately chugging. :rockin:
Justintoxicated
Well-Known Member
Just tried this but I think messed up a little.
I just took 900ml of water and boiled that with 1/2 cup of some Pilser Light DME for about 12 mintues (wasn't a roaring boil because I was getting some boil over issues).
Then I cooled it down to about 78.
When I opened my white labs yeast it sorta popped and yeast went all over (but still most of it was left in the tube,at least 80% of it).
I pitched it into my 1/2 gallon carboy with the mixture.
I think I should have measured and marked 1000ml on the carboy before starting so as to be able to "top it off to the correct level".
And If I was expecting the pop maybe I would not have spilled the yeast.
This is my first brew and first time pitching yeast etc. I didn't understand all the calculations on the first page to figure out how much starter I need. The beers OG is O.G. = 1.050 and I'm going to ad an alcohol boost to it as well so i don'thave the exact number.
Any advice? I plan to brew my first batch of beer this Saterday,and it is thursday morning about 1:45am now.
I just took 900ml of water and boiled that with 1/2 cup of some Pilser Light DME for about 12 mintues (wasn't a roaring boil because I was getting some boil over issues).
Then I cooled it down to about 78.
When I opened my white labs yeast it sorta popped and yeast went all over (but still most of it was left in the tube,at least 80% of it).
I pitched it into my 1/2 gallon carboy with the mixture.
I think I should have measured and marked 1000ml on the carboy before starting so as to be able to "top it off to the correct level".
And If I was expecting the pop maybe I would not have spilled the yeast.
This is my first brew and first time pitching yeast etc. I didn't understand all the calculations on the first page to figure out how much starter I need. The beers OG is O.G. = 1.050 and I'm going to ad an alcohol boost to it as well so i don'thave the exact number.
Any advice? I plan to brew my first batch of beer this Saterday,and it is thursday morning about 1:45am now.
tre9er
Well-Known Member
Wait for it to ferment out (everything settles to bottom, clear beer on top) then throw it in the fridge. On Saturday set the yeast out plenty early (~5-6 hours before you'll be done brewing) and let it warm to room temp, then decant off the top liquid and pour the bottom "stuff" into your fermenter when it's time to pitch yeast.
Justintoxicated
Well-Known Member
There is no action in the starter yet, however my 5 gallons apfelwein that I just dumped dry yeast into after making this starter for Saterdays beer is taking of. I'm thinking something is wrong.
cincybrewer
Well-Known Member
Freaking fruit flies got into my starter + no lhbs open on Sundays = no brewing today. Man I hate fruit flies.
How is that possible?
cincybrewer
Well-Known Member
Because I used foil so they just went right underneath it.
tre9er
Well-Known Member
cincybrewer said:
If it's an ongoing issue, use an air lock
cincybrewer
Well-Known Member
I was debating using an airlock out of fear for fruit flies but thought with the foil and co2 escaping they wouldn't be interested. It lasted over night but just as I was going to put it in the fridge, two got in. I'll have to use an air lock next time.
crbrown25
Well-Known Member
Having learned a lot while reading this thread over the past week, i felt obliged to mention that i'm currently making my 1st starter (1L). I mixed 3.3 oz (by weight) light DME with 1200 ml (pre-boil) water. I boiled for 15 mins and the pot is sitting in an ice bath as i type. Many thanks to Death Brewer for the post and everybody else who chimed in along the way. I'm looking forward to tasting the difference in quality that a starter provides.
