Skeeter Pee - Starting with Dry Yeast
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I remember reading some threads where folks were doing what they called a "backwards starter", basically starting fermentation on sugar water and nutrient, then adding the lemon juice every x number of days. They were having success but it did seem like a long way around.
I don't remember what the thread was, it might even have been the original Skeeter Pee thread.
Cheers
HW
CidahMastah
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Just did a double batch of skeeter pee in one of my demi johns. Had everything rolling pitched the yeast and ... there was something floating in my skeeterpee....
I was about to get peeved, then I saw what it was... no joke. There was a mosquito floating in the mixture.
I think that it was a sign, so I left it in for the ferment!
I hydrated the yeast packets (Used L1118); plan to do the split energizer and nutrient additions.
Edit: Started 2/13/11 - Strong ferment going as of 2/15/11; still chugging 2/18/11 ferment temp is 68F;
I waited about 24 hours and tossed in the second energizer and nutrient installment (I did not wait 24hours to pitch yeasty - I just through it all in less 1/3 of the lemon juice, then addied the remaining juice at 24hrs). Ferment temp is 73F.
I was about to get peeved, then I saw what it was... no joke. There was a mosquito floating in the mixture.
I think that it was a sign, so I left it in for the ferment!
I hydrated the yeast packets (Used L1118); plan to do the split energizer and nutrient additions.
Edit: Started 2/13/11 - Strong ferment going as of 2/15/11; still chugging 2/18/11 ferment temp is 68F;
I waited about 24 hours and tossed in the second energizer and nutrient installment (I did not wait 24hours to pitch yeasty - I just through it all in less 1/3 of the lemon juice, then addied the remaining juice at 24hrs). Ferment temp is 73F.
I started mine today. Seeing as you have to let it sit for 24 hrs, I am trying something. I took 10 oz of the must and diluted it with 10 oz of water and used this to get a starter going. If it isn't going by the time I am supposed to inoculate, I will rehydrate more yeast and go that route. I have 500 g of VL2 at my disposal, so wasting yeast doesn't bother me. I know the starter is small, but I just threw it in one of the lemon juice bottles.
CidahMastah
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I should clarify - I double pitched the yeast +1. I had five lalvlin 1118s around and tossed them all in hydrated.
So:
5 packs lavlin yeast
~11gallons of water brought to gravity of 1.070 with sugar
6tsp yeast nutrient
2 tsp energizer
Everything went in together less 1/3 the lemon juice and 1/2 of the yeast nutrient and energizer. About 24 hours I dumped in the 1/3 lemon juice and the remeining yeast nutrient/energizer
All is well
So:
5 packs lavlin yeast
~11gallons of water brought to gravity of 1.070 with sugar
6tsp yeast nutrient
2 tsp energizer
Everything went in together less 1/3 the lemon juice and 1/2 of the yeast nutrient and energizer. About 24 hours I dumped in the 1/3 lemon juice and the remeining yeast nutrient/energizer
All is well
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Result. 11 hours in, I wake up to a very active starter. Luckily I had it in a bowl. I think I am going to pitch it when I get home from work.
After 24 hours the starter was doing fine, so I pitched it. The pee was slowly rolling after about 16 hours. 24 hours after pitching I checked the gravity and I am down from 1.090 to 1.079. I think I may be doing the final addition of nutrient and juice tomorrow evening. I am going to open the juice tonight to try and work off some of the preservatives.
The only thing I changed from the original recipe (besides the yeast) was the nutrient/ energizer. I just used FermaidK since it is what I have.
The only thing I changed from the original recipe (besides the yeast) was the nutrient/ energizer. I just used FermaidK since it is what I have.
Well I jugged/kegged my pee this weekend. 1 gallon back sweetend with a can of cranberry juice conc. and 1/2 cup sugar, and 4.5 gallons to a keg with 4 cans lime-ade, 2 cups sugar. Both very tasty, keeping the jug still, and carbing the "margarita" version for a party this weekend. Mine was started with a 64oz white grape juice starter for 48 hrs, every thing else done per recipe. whisked daily. While the pee itself never had an oder, I found out what the sulfer smell was about when I was rinsing the dregs from the carboy with hot water :cross:, it was in there then. Never having done a wine before, if the whisking helped keep that odor from taking hold in the pee itself, I won't skip that step for sure. Also, I'm not sure I'm willing to risk a batch by not doing that step, it isn't a huge job.
CidahMastah
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The whisking probably does not impact the sulfur - sulfur gets pushed out, if present, by the co2 during ferment through your airlock. I think the wisking is supposed to act like a stir plate, getting more yeast back up and into suspension. I haven't touched mine once after the second addition of nutrient/energizer (24 hours from start). It has been a week and it is fermenting strong, near the end of the ferment.
I suppose healthy happy yeast due to the energizer and nutrient are more important to reducing odor, I had just assumed the whisking helped degas and release it so it didn't accumulate. I wouldn't need to stir mine, I had/have more than enough yeast in suspension. I didn't bother to use sparkloid, just cold crashed with the yeast killers. Hardly noticed a change in in a weeks time. Bottled any way, hey it looks like lemonade. Make sure to let us know how the "set it and forget it" goes. I look forward to it, I think we used the same yeast also, 1118. The simpler the better, that way maybe my wife will just make it herself. After all, I think her and her friends will be pretty hard on this stuff, and I can spend my time making beer!
CidahMastah
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Will do - I can't wait to try mine. Still very happy, I mean, we had sugar left over from cider this year, so... $12.93 + yeast nutrient and energizer for ~11 gallons worth of straight up lemonade hooch! Life is good! I am gonna end up crashing my lawn mower into something...
I was 1118 too. Figured I might as well pick a bully yeast to put in the acidic environment
I was 1118 too. Figured I might as well pick a bully yeast to put in the acidic environment
One other thing I am doing differently is my aeration. I am aerating it at least twice a day until it is close to dry. When making wine at the winery we aerate every 6 hours to keep the yeast happy. It seems to be working so far. The yeast are working great, and the stink is minimal.
CidahMastah
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Update - Yeast from packets and less steps:
My ferment started 2/13/11 and is just about dry, very slow ferment right now, should be done in a day or so.
I thought I would post back with the following information:
1. I only aerated at yeast pitching (which I did right away, and didn't wait 24 hours)
2. I did split the yeast nutrient and energizer additions, half up front and half about 24hours later.
3. I didn't touch the ferment again and it had a nice constant steady ferment throughout and no off smells from the ferment.
Details:
1. Double batch of skeeter pee in a demi john - planned on using 4x1118 yeast packs but had 5 on hand so figured eh, it won't hurt. So 5x1118 yeast packs @ 85 cents each.
2. started 2/13/11, should be done by end of week latest (3/4/11)
3. Used warm tap water to help dissolve the sugar, added 2/3 of lemon juice and 1/2 of nutrient and energizer up front (cooled pee to ~77F before pitching). I hydrated my yeast prior to pitching, but no starter.
3. Ferment temp ~68F-73F
4. About 24 hours and tossed in the rest of the lemon juice and the rest of the energizer and nutrient.
Conclusions:
There are a lot of extra steps in the original recipe (perhaps a few more that I did) that may or may not hurt the process (make you more prone to infect your wine, etc). I tend to think that extra aeration after the first 24-48 hours is not helpful, and possibly harmful. since this part of the fermentation is anaerobic anyhow. All you would be doing is oxidizing the must.
Next time:
I plan to pitch everything in at once next time and see what happens. I think as long as you prime it with enough yeast, you will be good to go.
My ferment started 2/13/11 and is just about dry, very slow ferment right now, should be done in a day or so.
I thought I would post back with the following information:
1. I only aerated at yeast pitching (which I did right away, and didn't wait 24 hours)
2. I did split the yeast nutrient and energizer additions, half up front and half about 24hours later.
3. I didn't touch the ferment again and it had a nice constant steady ferment throughout and no off smells from the ferment.
Details:
1. Double batch of skeeter pee in a demi john - planned on using 4x1118 yeast packs but had 5 on hand so figured eh, it won't hurt. So 5x1118 yeast packs @ 85 cents each.
2. started 2/13/11, should be done by end of week latest (3/4/11)
3. Used warm tap water to help dissolve the sugar, added 2/3 of lemon juice and 1/2 of nutrient and energizer up front (cooled pee to ~77F before pitching). I hydrated my yeast prior to pitching, but no starter.
3. Ferment temp ~68F-73F
4. About 24 hours and tossed in the rest of the lemon juice and the rest of the energizer and nutrient.
Conclusions:
There are a lot of extra steps in the original recipe (perhaps a few more that I did) that may or may not hurt the process (make you more prone to infect your wine, etc). I tend to think that extra aeration after the first 24-48 hours is not helpful, and possibly harmful. since this part of the fermentation is anaerobic anyhow. All you would be doing is oxidizing the must.
Next time:
I plan to pitch everything in at once next time and see what happens. I think as long as you prime it with enough yeast, you will be good to go.
Interesting findings. I didn't agitate mine in the first 24 hours after pitching and it was already smelling funky, so I started stirring it at least twice a day with a paddle on a drill and the smell was gone for the rest of the ferment. I didn't stir after it was down to 1.015 because I wanted the CO2 to push the rest of the air out. I pitched my puny starter on 2/18 and I racked it on 2/28. So 10 days.
CidahMastah
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Did you use 1118 yeast? Ferment temp?
CidahMastah
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WIP - that might just be a yeast difference. 1118 is a more robust strain than VL2. Probably the VL2 was stressing a bit with the poor environment. 1118 is a powerhouse, capable of unsticking a stuck ferment in most all conditions.
I still think that in 99 percent of the cases that you smell sulfur it isn't a big deal. Just keep your airlock on and it will vapor off (that has been my personal experience).
I still think that in 99 percent of the cases that you smell sulfur it isn't a big deal. Just keep your airlock on and it will vapor off (that has been my personal experience).
CidahMastah
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Yeah, it is leftover yeast from last years harvest, we like to buy new every year. I will just have to push out a bunch of pee. I don't like it for Apfelwein, it doesn't clear (quick enough) I have a batch from 6 months ago that is still quite foggy. I am going to fine it with egg whites and re evaluate.
I am glad you appreciate the taste of quality pee.
I am glad you appreciate the taste of quality pee.
CidahMastah
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I am really looking forward to this weekend, I think my pee will be ready to rack off.
While I might keep some as lemonade wine (still), I am a fan of carbonation. I plan on cold crashing then bringing to a bottling bucket for sorbating, sulphiting and backsweetening with sugar/concentrate (as needed for flavor) then carbing [as I do with my draft ciders]. If this isn't fit for a lawnmower ride, I don't know what is.
While I might keep some as lemonade wine (still), I am a fan of carbonation. I plan on cold crashing then bringing to a bottling bucket for sorbating, sulphiting and backsweetening with sugar/concentrate (as needed for flavor) then carbing [as I do with my draft ciders]. If this isn't fit for a lawnmower ride, I don't know what is.
Bradinator
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The first batch was so awesome I started another batch on the weekend, but I was feeling especially lazy so I did the following:
I only aerated the 'must' for like 6 hours, rather the 24. I also only used 1/2 cup of must, 2 tablespoons of sugar and 2 cups of water to start my yeast (all added at the same time). Two hours later I pitched it straight into the skeeter pee must. Its only been 4 days since starting and its fermenting like mad.
I guess the final product will determine if this 'limited effort' approach works or not. I plan to let it sit for 4 weeks and then straight to bottles as per the normal recipe. I will update when I finally drink a bottle.
I only aerated the 'must' for like 6 hours, rather the 24. I also only used 1/2 cup of must, 2 tablespoons of sugar and 2 cups of water to start my yeast (all added at the same time). Two hours later I pitched it straight into the skeeter pee must. Its only been 4 days since starting and its fermenting like mad.
I guess the final product will determine if this 'limited effort' approach works or not. I plan to let it sit for 4 weeks and then straight to bottles as per the normal recipe. I will update when I finally drink a bottle.
BaddogBrewing
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Interesting to see how these changes come out. Also has anybody just reused the yeast cake from the previous batch of Skeeter Pee instead of a new wine slurry? I've done this several times with Apfelwein with no issues.
Captive
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I have... and it can work as long as your yeast is healthy. If they are already stressed, or if you had any hydrogen-sulfide odors started in the previous batch, they can carry over and create headaches for you in the new batch.
The key is to stir it up to dissipate the Sulfites. You can't overstir... whip it... whip it good!!
It is listed as an early drinker... but my Elder Pee from last year is really amazing now. The bitterness of the lemon has subsided and it's sooo nice! I've made Cherry Pee as well. You can make a starter out of any frozen juice as well... to add a nice flavor. I made my cherry from approx 1lb tart cherries, sugar, etc... just to get it roaring good for a couple days... then started the official recipe.
Debbie
It is listed as an early drinker... but my Elder Pee from last year is really amazing now. The bitterness of the lemon has subsided and it's sooo nice! I've made Cherry Pee as well. You can make a starter out of any frozen juice as well... to add a nice flavor. I made my cherry from approx 1lb tart cherries, sugar, etc... just to get it roaring good for a couple days... then started the official recipe.
Debbie
CidahMastah
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What sulphites are you referring too? Are you adding sulphites pre-ferment? Otherwise there aren't any sulphites in there.
The role of added sulfites it to de-oxygenate the must (act as a preservative). Not sure why you would be adding them to this recipe for your ferment.
