On-Demand Sparge via RIMS

Yes, it does work but it's going to take some tuning of the PID. My goal was to discover the delta you can get on 120v and 240v through a 5500 watt element and the answer is about 30F and 130F respectively at around 1.1 liter per minute. Next step is to manually tun the PID parameters to keep the element from shutting off for so long. Beware, this video is boring, shaky and unscripted.

Cool idea - Where did you get that center off switch??

It's a Bryant 3025.

Bobby,

You're right, it does work. I started doing this three years ago and have had good success with a 5500W element at 240V. It does heat the sparge sufficiently with 60-70 deg. feed water at 1 qt./min. Flow rate and PID tuning appear to be very critical. It's good to see someone showing it actually working as many people have said that it's not possible.

A circulation loop pumping some of the RIMS output back to the RIMS input along with feed water will help considerably to stabilize the temperature at the output. Flow rate must then be controlled by adjusting the flow from the water source.

That being said, I am adding an HLT to my system to eliminate a problem not caused by on demand heating. I need to adjust the mineral content of the sparge water. A separate concern for some might be water treated with chloramines. That would make this is a non-starter. I could add a cold water storage tank for mineral treatment with no heating ability, but for me it's just as easy to make an HLT.

Yeah, water treatment is definitely the challenge here. If one were to fully commit to this idea, I think chloramine could be removed by running two charcoal filters inline. At 1 qt/min it should be slow enough to remove it. I agree that if you have to create a holding tank for any reason that you might as well just put an element into it. They're cheap enough. If you're only working with a 30 amp panel, the fact that you'd have to wait to fire your boil kettle is reason enough to preheat your sparge water.

@Bobby_M -- I recall reading somewhere (for the life of me I can't find the reference) that it's not trivial to remove chloramines via activated carbon filtration (Martin Brungard -- can you confirm??). Here in Indy our water is normally treated with chlorine but during a short period in the winter they treat the water (and thus the system) with chloramine. I always use kMeta for chloramine treatment. Of note, this thread has piqued my curiosity as I always (ok 80% of the time) brew no sparge and heat my water with my RIMS tube -- currently a 2200 watt fold-back element which causes a dull wait for water to heat. I ordered that exact switch from Westway Electric Supply and plan to swap the 2.2kw for a 5.5kw element. Thanks for the video, I found it quite informative.

I don't remember where I got the info so consider it rumor for now, but at a slow enough flow rate with enough activated carbon surface area, you can remove chloramine. The typical argument for not relying on such a filter for stripping it for brewing purposes is that no one would be so disciplined as to run the water at 1qt a minute through two filters if they weren't already restricting it for temp delta purposes.

@bobby_m -- I'm curious how you wired up that switch in concert with the PID. Do you have the PID switch the "always on" leg and use the 3025 to switch between the neutral or hot line 2? And as for the swtich, the instructions leave me a bit confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Long story short, the element leads are connected to the commons on the switch. In one throw, they connect to L1 and L2. In the other throw, L1 and Neutral for 120v.

That's how I thought it should be wired up, but the instructions below didnt exactly make it clear!

Bobby_M said:

Yeah, water treatment is definitely the challenge here. If one were to fully commit to this idea, I think chloramine could be removed by running two charcoal filters inline. At 1 qt/min it should be slow enough to remove it. I agree that if you have to create a holding tank for any reason that you might as well just put an element into it. They're cheap enough. If you're only working with a 30 amp panel, the fact that you'd have to wait to fire your boil kettle is reason enough to preheat your sparge water.

Click to expand...

Presumably you could use an unheated and insulated HLT though, and heat the sparge water in your kettle to ~160F, then transfer to the HLT (5 gallon cooler in my case) for treatment before you start sparging and use a 1500W RIMS tube to just heat the sparge water that final step to 168F. That way you'd only need a 110V PID controlled element in the RIMS, and a manually controlled boil kettle, which could be either 240V electric, dual 110V (you could run one element while sparging with the RIMS to start heating the wort) or gas.

At the moment I brew using only a single gas heated kettle with the common two cooler HLT and MLT setup, although I've just ordered the bits for a 1500W RIMS tube, and I've already built and tested the PID controller with a 1000W bucket heater that I use to assist my stove when brewing indoors. I want to use the RIMS tube to provide the control for heating the sparge water. Since I usually fly sparge 1 pint/minute is closer to the desired flow rate.

dyqik said:

Presumably you could use an unheated and insulated HLT though, and heat the sparge water in your kettle to ~160F, then transfer to the HLT (5 gallon cooler in my case) for treatment before you start sparging and use a 1500W RIMS tube to just heat the sparge water that final step to 168F. That way you'd only need a 110V PID controlled element in the RIMS, and a manually controlled boil kettle, which could be either 240V electric, dual 110V (you could run one element while sparging with the RIMS to start heating the wort) or gas.

At the moment I brew using only a single gas heated kettle with the common two cooler HLT and MLT setup, although I've just ordered the bits for a 1500W RIMS tube, and I've already built and tested the PID controller with a 1000W bucket heater that I use to assist my stove when brewing indoors. I want to use the RIMS tube to provide the control for heating the sparge water. Since I usually fly sparge 1 pint/minute is closer to the desired flow rate.

Click to expand...

May i ask what you gain by heating it first by stove and then by RIMS for sparge? Why wouldn't it be easier just to push the last 8 degrees by stove.

Bobby,
what you have show here does have merit but seems like something for those with 240v lines. the theoretical max delta for the 5500w element @ a flow rate of 1LPM is ~129F.

In terms of treatment it could be as easy as a bucket of water treated with a bit of kmeta ahead of time.

Indian_villager said:

May i ask what you gain by heating it first by stove and then by RIMS for sparge? Why wouldn't it be easier just to push the last 8 degrees by stove.

Click to expand...

You gain accurate temperature control of the sparge water, which is maintained throughout the long fly sparge. Or to put it another way, you avoid the need for a heated and controlled HLT which would be the other way of achieving this.

dyqik said:

You gain accurate temperature control of the sparge water, which is maintained throughout the long fly sparge. Or to put it another way, you avoid the need for a heated and controlled HLT which would be the other way of achieving this.

Click to expand...

Didn't think the temp of the sparge water was critical enough to require that degree of control. Then again I am a batch sparger.

Whatever floats goats!