Anyone using High Gravity's EBC II Control?

Anyone using one of these:

EBC II with Infinite Power Control w/ 4-wire plug - High Gravity

I am looking into building an E-HERM. I am not comfortable doing all my own wiring, and this looks like exactly what I am looking for. I just haven't seen anyone using one and would like to hear from someone with experience using it.

I would want to automate the elements with the Ranco's, and if anyone else has done this, how well did it maintain temps?

Thanks.

I'm using one of these:
Electric Kettle Controller - High Gravity

and really like it! The folks at High Gravity are great to deal with as well.

Highly recommended!

I just received mine which came standard with their SS All-Grain brewing setup. And due to my curious and questioning nature, I opened the control box to see what was under the hood and found a wire not connected. Not sure what would have happened had I hooked everything up and energized it. I promptly notified High Gravity and they were quick to respond. KUDOS to them. So I guess what I am trying to say is....make sure you check everything over thoroughly before you start trying to use it for the first time. Those EBCIIs are hand built but sometimes things just happen. I am probably going to incorporate mine into my BCS-462 setup. I will try and post updates as I go along. Happy New Year everyone! CHEERS!!!!

Watching this one with interest... Thinking of grabbing the EBC and two elements (plus weldless kits) feeling a bit chicken to do it myself...

Interested in any feedback as this is going to be a big ($400+) investment!

I did research for a few months and decided on electric. I bought this controller, 3 pots, the HERMS setup, etc. I am very pleased - it is everything I anticipated it would be. The 5500w element in the HLT heats the water faster and cheaper pe rminute than gas. I went with the 4500w element in the boil kettle. Still working out the kinks in my process, but the equipment works as advertised. High Gravity was great to work with as well. I am using two Johnson 419 controllers.

I made two primary modifications:
1) The elements and controller come standard with a large, stiff, six foot cord. This is inconvenient on the kettles, and in a 50 degree garage these cables aren't all that pliable. I clipped them off the kettles and attached a twist lock male plug, shortening the cords on the kettles to mere stubs. I made a longer cable out of flexible cable to go from the controller to the kettles. It is now easier to move the kettles around.
2) I ordered it with SS thermowells. I found that SS reacts too slowly to temp changes (for my liking, anyway), so I took them out and made copper thermowells instead. It dramatically increased the reaction time of the temp controllers to liquid temp changes.

I can post some pics or answer any questions if there is interest.

NewBrewer63, please post pics! That would be great!

My only complaint with the controller is the stiffness of the power cord as well. Otherwise, I am very happy.

I apologize in advance for my amateur photography. Here are a few pics. I can get better or different pics if anyone would like to see them.

This is my control panel. You can see the EBT II with the six foot gray power cord. I took a Husky tool cart (Home Depot) and made a hinged cover for it out of OSB. I tacked everything down. I can prop the cover up for brewing, and close it for storage. Cords and such store under the lid. Once I have my process and needs figured out I will make it more permanent. You can see the two Johnson controllers in the upper right. I added some outlets and a switch.

This is a shot of the pigtail I made for the pots. They came with the same six foot cord you see on the controller. This cord is stiff and unwieldy. I clipped the cord close and put a male twist lock end on it.

This is the cord I made from 10/3 flexible cord. I put a male end on it to plug into the controller. I put a female twist lock on the other end to mate with the male pigtails on the pots. Now, instead of unplugging the pots and plugging them in at the controller, I move the cord from pot to pot using the twist lock connectors. I aslo made the cord 15' long, so I have a bit more flexibility in placing my controller cart.

This is an example of the thermowell I made out of a brass fitting and copper tube. This was an early attempt, but the "good" ones are exactly the same (sans leaks).

This is my rig, inspired by a lot of different folks and tweaked to match my needs (wants). The stand is a Brutus10 inspiration, but with an aluminum "shoebox" cover since I am electric and not using burners. I am set up for 10 gallon batches. The pots and electrics are from High Gravity. The March pumps are secured to a 2x4 and clamped to the cart. After i dial in my process I will attach them more permanently. I have a Blichman Therminator plate chiller beneath the boil pot.

I am happy to share any other details, and even happier to get feedback on ideas for change or improvement.

Thanks for the pics. The retrofit on the power cords is a great idea! From the pics, it looks like your HERMS coil is mounted thru the lid of the HLT? Can you get a close up pic or two of your HERMS coil and how it is mounted? Thanks!

Will do later this evening after work.

Thanks!

Newbrewer63, that's a nice looking setup. My friend and I are planning a 10 gallon electric setup for his basement and we're researching options. How much have you spent on it so far?

It will take a little work, but I will put together the cost I have into it so far. The system is based on High Gravity's Build Your Electric Brewery here:
Build Your Own Brewery - High Gravity
in case you want to get an idea. I went with the 15 gal Bayou Classic HLT with the HERMS coil, the 5500 watt element in the HLT, a 15 gal Blichmann MT with false bottom, and 20 cal Blichmann boil kettle with 4500 watt element. I got the EBC II controller as well. They had a great price on the March pumps so I got them there as well. I went with the Blichmann quick disconnects for my hoses. Add in a number of fittings and such. I will put a detailed list together.

Thanks for the updates! My brewery is slowly coming together and this is the big ticket item to get it working.... Nice to see it in action...

The HERMS system is basically High Gravity's small immersion chiller installed in the lid of the pot:

If you can see through the clutter in the backgorund, you can see the underside of the lid in the photo. The coil is installed using compression fittings through two pre-drilled (drilled by High Gravity) holes in the lid. It doesn't fit the lid tight - it hangs a bit freely. The other hose on the right is a water return I installed for recirculating the water in the HLT.

On the left is the HERMS coil output. I added a "T" connector and a thermowell on the left of it. This is where I monitor the temperature and control the heat for recirculating the mash. The center fitting is the HERMS input, and the fitting on the right is the water return.

I added this site glass I ordered from bargainfittings.com, as the pot didn't come with one and I found it inconvenient that it didn't have one. The biggest issue is that you cannot fire the heater unless the element is completely immersed. Along with the gallon level markings I have a "minimum level to fire the heating element" marking so I can visually see, without lifting the lid, if I have enough water in the pot to fire the element.

The other thing I will add to the HLT is a dip tube. If all you will use the HLT for is the HLT and HERMS vessel then you don't really need one. However, my 20g boil kettle is too large for small batches (it takes at least 7 gallons to immerse the element). Maybe someday I will look into re-installing the element lower in the pot. Until then, if I want to do a smaller batch I need to use the HLT as the boil kettle. Since I pump the liquids everywhere they go a dip tube is in order.

As far as cost I will continue to work to put it together. The thing to keep in mind is that I went high-end with a lot of this. As far as I can tell the Blichmann pots are top of the line, and you pay for it. Just about everything here can be purchased separately and installed in less expensive pots. I have seen all of these components, including plans for a contoller that does the same thing as the EBC II, sold separately and overall much cheaper. You just have to determine how much you can and are willing to do yourself.

I would be interested in knowing where you found info. on building an EBCII. I have essentially the same setup but I made the mistake of ordering the same size BK as my other kettles. Being new to brew I didnt make a well informed decision. Oh well....I will probably still try to do a 10 gallon batch with what I have.

There is a lot of information on this forum. Search "PWM", "boil control", "TRIAC" and that should get you started.

I don't think it has to be a problem that you have the same size boil kettle as your other vessels. I wanted a setup to do 10 gallon batches, and the Blichmann 20 gallon pot was only $30 more than the 15 gallon pot. Coming from the extract brewing world doing 5 gallon batches with an 8 gallon pot, I was sick of having to deal with the prospect of boil overs. So, I went 20 gallons on the boil pot. Works great for 10 gallon batches. It's just that the element is installed high enough in the pot that I can't boil 5 gallon batches in it. You may be just fine with what you have.

Newbrewer63 said:

... So, I went 20 gallons on the boil pot. Works great for 10 gallon batches. It's just that the element is installed high enough in the pot that I can't boil 5 gallon batches in it. You may be just fine with what you have.

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Did you install the element opening? I'm most interested in doing mainly 5 GAL with the capacity for an occasional 10 GAL batch for those weekends when it's not just me drinking a beer or three (or four or eight). Kal has stated that he can boil 5 gallon batches with his element position, but I'm concerned that this might not be possible.

I had the hole drilled by High Gravity. I just took the "default" position - I didn't tell them I wanted to make sure I could boil 5 gallon batches in it (didn't think about it). There is certainly room to have it installed lower, and in looking at others' rigs, I see many installed lower. If it becomes an issue I can reinstall the element lower on the pot to accomodate 5 gallon batches and plug the current hole. Not a big deal for me at the moment. I can use my HLT as a boil kettle for 5 gallon batches if I choose to do so.

Thanks for all the information and pics. I have been strongly considering order the same from HGB and your information was very helpful and has convinced me to move forward with ordering. Question, is there anything you would have asked to have done differently now that you have the system? Did they install the ball valves you have pictured for the HERMS ports on the HLT Lid.

Something else I found out concerning the EBCII is that High Gravity has taken one of the hot leads and branched off of it for the 120V power for the pump and heating control. In talking to a certified Electrician friend of mine he tells me that its not a very safe configuration. That lead still comes off of a rated 30A breaker thus still has that potential. I believe the switch and sockets for the pump and heating element are only rated at 15A. He said I should instead run a seperate 110V/120V conductor into the box for control. That way the neutral wires could be connected correctly also. If anyone else has anything to add or thinks Im just full of it please feel free to chime in. CHEERS!!!

I was using one of these for awhile until the unit sparked and I smelled burning plastic.... Scared me half to death.

Aerohead93 said:

Something else I found out concerning the EBCII is that High Gravity has taken one of the hot leads and branched off of it for the 120V power for the pump and heating control. In talking to a certified Electrician friend of mine he tells me that its not a very safe configuration. That lead still comes off of a rated 30A breaker thus still has that potential. I believe the switch and sockets for the pump and heating element are only rated at 15A. He said I should instead run a seperate 110V/120V conductor into the box for control. That way the neutral wires could be connected correctly also. If anyone else has anything to add or thinks Im just full of it please feel free to chime in. CHEERS!!!

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I don't know the specifics of this device, but assuming proper wire gauge and circuit breakers/fuses, and 4-wire 240V that has a true ground, using one hot lead and neutral to create a 120V circuit is not a problem if properly done. This would require a 240V circuit in your main panel with 4-wire running to the device, and of course proper wiring within the device itself.

mhhorn77 said:

Thanks for all the information and pics. I have been strongly considering order the same from HGB and your information was very helpful and has convinced me to move forward with ordering. Question, is there anything you would have asked to have done differently now that you have the system? Did they install the ball valves you have pictured for the HERMS ports on the HLT Lid.

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I don't have ball valves installed on the HERMS ports - I am not sure from my picture exactly what you are seeing. Being the amatuer I am with the camera it could be background clutter. I have ball valves installed on my kettles for draining/filling, and on the output of the pumps for flow rate control. With that said, here is what I would have done differently now that I have it:
- I would have installed a dip tube in my HLT. I actually still can. This is not something High Gravity would have done anyway. They drilled the hole and sent the parts. I assembled tham after the kettles arrived.
- I would have had the element in the BK installed lower to accomodate smaller batches. However, I decided to build up a 10 gallon kettle for smaller batches instead.
- I would have gone with the 4 wire model. My 3 wire setup is plenty safe, but for no extra cost I could have been prepared for 4 wire if I felt the need to at some point.
- I ditched the SS thermowells. I found that although they eventually settle in to their ambient temperature they react too slowly for my liking. This meant overshooting my target temp by a few degrees. I have since ditched my homemade thermowells in the pics and gone with the ones specifically designed for the Johnson A419. These are copper and react more quickly than SS.
- I would ask for the heating elements without the 6 foot cord. I ended up cutting them short and installing twist lock ends on them. For my 10 gallon kettle I am going with this:
http://www.brewershardware.com/TC15F10NPSCOV.html
from Brewers Hardware. If it works out I will retrofit my 20 gallon BK and my HLT with it. I don't weld, so I am going to have to find a shop to weld the tri clover ferrule on for me. However, it provides strain relief, covers the electrical connections better than the shrink tube on the High Gravity setups, and is easy to remove. Overall, safer and more efficient. In fact, I could conceivably move the element between kettles and not have to have one in each with this setup. One thing I have found is that I have to clean the BK element after each batch - it gets coated with white protien during the boil. It would be easier to clean if I could easily remove the element.
- The other thing I am going to do is add two "L" type two way ball valves. This will give me the capability of running my process from adding the initial water to the HLT to filling the BK with the sweet wort without having to remove or change any hoses or connections. I will still have to do a simple hose swap to move the wort from the BK through the chiller, but I will have a good hour to get that done in a liesurely manner, not like the chinese fire drill I have had going on during the brew process to date.
- One final thing I could have done is think through my end to end process more before deciding on a final configuration. However, I can only imagine so much given the fact that I don't have much experience yet. I learn by doing, and I wanted to stop cutting bait and start fishing, so to speak. I do have extra parts starting to pile up as I change things around. However, I knew this would be the case, and I don't mind a little trial and error.

Aerohead93 said:

Something else I found out concerning the EBCII is that High Gravity has taken one of the hot leads and branched off of it for the 120V power for the pump and heating control. In talking to a certified Electrician friend of mine he tells me that its not a very safe configuration. That lead still comes off of a rated 30A breaker thus still has that potential. I believe the switch and sockets for the pump and heating element are only rated at 15A. He said I should instead run a seperate 110V/120V conductor into the box for control. That way the neutral wires could be connected correctly also. If anyone else has anything to add or thinks Im just full of it please feel free to chime in. CHEERS!!!

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What jeffmeh said. I don't know what's in that box, but that's how a lot of devices are wired that require 240 and 120 power, like a clothes dryer or a kitchen range. You don't plug them into a 240 and 120 outlet.

For what it's worth, I consulted with my brother-in-law who is a master electrician as I was investigating going electric. The EBCII comes with a drawing. He looked at it and said it should be fine as long as it is built as drawn. He recommended GFCI protection for the circuit and declared my setup safe from an electrical perspective. He was more concerned about dealing with massive quantities of hot liquids on a movable platform than he was about electrocution. The other thing he pointed out is that no matter how bad or unsafe the elecrical set up is, the danger comes when you make your body the path of least resistance. So, wearing good shoes with thick soles lessens the risk as well. If I really wanted to go crazy maybe insulating mats on the floor around the rig.

Brewing Sailor. Any chance you can share this schematic. There was another thread here that showed how they did their circuit, but I would be curious to see the real deal.

Sure thing. I will see if I can dig it up when I get home from work.

Here it is:

Nice, incredibly simple.

Anyone have a pic of the inside of the simple EBC?

If you are not going to use a digital controller, and are looking for a simple kettle controller, you may want to look at the EKC:

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/Electric-Kettle-Controller-p3084.htm

I use one and am very happy with it.

I don't feel like dismantling mine right now for a photo, but I can say that I'm happy with the EBC II. It was a simple way to get into electric and has served my simple eBIAB needs quite well so far. Can you build it cheaper? of course, but at least in my case the time-to-brewing factor took over and I consider it a sound purchase.

BrewingSailor said:

Here it is:
View attachment 50535

Click to expand...

OK, I am resurrecting two threads in one day, Bad Chriso! But I have a question for you. I am trying to understand the schematic. I am not very experienced with electricity at all - I only work on computers, not "electronics".

Above, the "Plug2" is filled in with dark black, not hollow - I am guessing that means "Male" plug, not female. Ok, Great.

So, based on that guess, I take it that the Male Plug2 plugs in to the Female Recept2, which is marked Heat. And all of this is controlling one of the two HOT legs on Recep3. Have I got that correct so far?

So what happens is, you flip Switch 2, and it takes 120V from one of the two HOT lines, applying it to Plug2 - which, in turn, powers the 120V coil found onboard the 240V 30A Relay. The relay, once powered, then provides energy through the DIAC and TRIAC circuitry (the Infinite Power Control portion of the box), therefore continuing on to the "missing" leg of Recep3, completing the circuit and energizing the element.

My question is simply... did I understand that correctly? I've spent weeks trying to figure out what is accomplished by plugging itself... into itself.

I really don't think a PID is necessary for what I want to do - a huge waste of money in my situation since I don't plan to control mash, control temp in any way, and have a stand-alone HLT that has nothing to do with the BK Controller - and that a PWM circuit is more than adequate for my needs.... problem is, as stated, I don't do "electronics", I don't solder, I just know how to swap out whole parts for whole parts. (e.g. video card, power supply unit, etc.) Thus, my apologies for the terribly basic question.

Sub-Question: If you do this on your own, inside of an enclosure - you would theoretically just run wire from the On/Off switch that powers the SSR + PWM circuitry - directly to the SSR - thus, eliminating the 120V outlet and 120v plug, but providing the same functionality.

Is that description of how it's done also correct?

Finally, finally thinking that I see how all this comes together... Gawd I'm bad at this. :-S

The EBC II design is intended for use with a standard RANCO or similar temp controller allowing you to turn the heat on/off based on temperature. You "plug the EBC into itself" when you don't have or don't need temp control.

Check out the high gravity site for info and videos of their products.

If you were designing you own control panel you could replace the EBC external temp control feature with an internal PID.

That makes a lot more sense! So if your goal is to add a Ranco or Johnson unit, you would plug the 120V "pigtail" in to your Temp Controller, and then the controller would plug into the marked "heat" outlet.

And likewise, if you were building your own EBC II from scratch and never planned to add a Ranco/Johnson/etc. into it - you could eliminate the outlet and the plug, by simply using a switch, and running the output of the switch directly to the SSR 120V Coil. Correct?

The entire point is that I *don't* want to use a PID and simply put it into Manual Mode the entire time I'm using it. Instead, I want to go the PWM route, which as far as I can tell, the "Infinity Control" is a PWM - except, using DIAC/TRIAC instead of the individual componentry on a DIY board. (Again - do I have that correct? I'm guessing / interpolating.)

I'm starting with analyzing/understanding the EBC II because I think it, in its' limited scope and function, will help me understand the basics that I keep failing to "get". Once I understand how this works, I hope to take it the next step further, by applying what I learned from the EBC II, to a completely DIY PWM circuit a la "Walker 555 IC PWM" that everybody says to search for (which, ironically, makes the original post very hard to find).

My implementation of the variable element control was to use a phase angle SSR. Search for "voltage resistance SSR" on ebay or amazon, they are about the same price as a regular SSR.

The PWM circuit + SSR accomplishes the same thing.

Yeah - Just stumbled (back) across your build thread (again) and am re-reading / figuring out what the phase angle SSR's do. That might be a great way to skip having to solder. I made a note to myself in my pre-build planning thread. Thanks for pointing that out!

And thanks for helping me understand what is happening with all of this - Really, trying to discern "what does what, how, and why" is the hardest part of this job!