Is sour the new Hoppy?

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JoeBronco

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Dogfish head just forwarded this on facebook... Its a good read. Russian river, Allagash, and DFH are brewing some new stuff...

Originally posted here

By Jill Redding
In 2006, five American craft brewers took an epic trip to Belgium that forever changed their perspectives on brewing.

“I came back from that trip with a vision of starting a sour program,” said Adam Avery, whose Avery Brewing Co. in Boulder, Colo. now has about 220 barrels in its barrel-aging program.

Tomme Arthur, another one of those five travelers (dubbed the “Brett pack” for their affinity for brewing with Brettanomyces yeast), is now running one of the largest domestic barrel-aging programs at Port Brewing/The Lost Abbey in San Marcos, Calif., with 600 barrels, of which approximately 250 are devoted to sour beer.

The two brewers shared several of their latest creations and their thoughts on sour beers to a standing-room-only crowd at the Big Beers, Belgians and Barleywines Festival in Vail, Colo. January 6-8. “It’s fun to share these with people who can grasp what’s in the glass,” said Avery, speaking to the “Brewers Gone Wild” seminar audience that consisted of beer media, homebrewers, brewing professionals and beer lovers.

It’s been said that “sour is the new hoppy.” India Pale Ales have been king in this country for many years, but sour beers are now all the buzz. While still focusing on their vast portfolios, Avery and Arthur are devoting considerable resources to their barrel-aging programs and are having a blast in the process. Avery Brewing even experimented with a “ghetto coolship” at one time, said Avery. “I had visions of doing it the way Cantillon does it [with its shallow open fermenters known as coolships],” he said. “I wanted to see what the Colorado air could do for our beer.”

Avery ages most of its beer in wine barrels, specifically its sour beer. Avery’s Brettanomyces house strain was harvested from bottles of Drie Fonteinen that Avery brought back from Belgium.

“We are still totally in the learning process,” said Avery, whose brewery launched the barrel-aging program two years ago and will be releasing the sixth beer in the series soon.

However, Avery said, “I can’t say that I see sour ales being the next big thing. It’s such a small niche already. I don’t really see it exploding.” Although, he added, “In 1996 we couldn’t sell IPA, and now we can’t keep enough in stock.”

Regardless, sour beers are a great draw for bringing new craft beer drinkers into the fold. “With beers like this, you definitely will steal some wine drinkers,” Avery said.

American brewers such as Avery, Arthur, Russian River’s Vinnie Cilurzo and Allagash’s Rob Tod (who were both also on the trip to Belgium) are bringing America’s burgeoning barrel-aging scene to the forefront. What sets it apart from the Belgians, said Arthur, is that “the notion of sour beer in Belgium has no wood character.” In fact, Arthur related the story of how Jean Pierre Van Roy of Belgium’s renowned Cantillon Brewery tasted his award-winning Cuvee de Tomme and promptly looked for a place to spit it out.

But the innovative New World brewers continue to influence the Old World brewers. Van Roy’s son, Jean, dumped an entire 44-pound box of American Amarillo hops into a Cantillon brew with Avery and Arthur urging him on, with only a shrug of his shoulders at the suggestion.

The trip had far-reaching effects. Tod built a successful coolship at Allagash; Cilurzo now has 500 barrels in his Russian River stash (100 percent devoted to sour beers) and is planning to add up to 300 more; and the fifth brewer from that trip, Dogfish Head’s Sam Calagione, built an enormous tank made of Palo Santo wood for aging Palo Santo Marron.

Is sour the new hoppy? We’ll see how it plays out, but in the meantime it’s been a treat to sample such beers as Avery’s Quinquepartite and The Lost Abbey’s Veritas 008. Quinquepartite, Latin for “consisting of five parts,” was blended from beers aged in five oak barrels: two Cabernet Sauvignon barrels, a port barrel, a Chardonnay barrel and a Zinfandel barrel, fermented with Brett. The 008 version of Veritas is an oak-aged version of Port Amigo, a Mexican lager, with black tea and lemon zest.

“We did 70 cases of it and it’s gone,” said Arthur.
 
Thats crazy. I mean it might not catch on too quick but as he stated, in 1996 noone wanted an IPA (If I was old enough to drink then I would have though) and now I see it every where I go. Who know.

Does anyone know of a sour beer that readily available everywhere..or in FLA at least. Id like to try one.
 
Not sure about FL, but if you happen to Burlington, VT Magic Hat has had a sour ale in the summer. I was working in the area summer of 2008 and it was great.
 
Cool story, thanks for the link.

Two years ago, I had never tasted a sour. now I can't get enough.

Sauce, Rodenbach might be something else you might find.
 
I don't think Jolly Pumpkin is distributed very far south. I've certainly never seen it around Dallas.

I don't think sour is the new hoppy but I do think sour is the new IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPA. However, as they pointed out in the story, oak is the new hoppy. Oak goes in everything now.
 
The most widely distributed sour would be "Duchess De Bourgnone" a flanders red.

An excellent beer too.

As to sour being the new hoppy. I've never been crazy about hop bombs. I have always enjoyed sours.
 
Sauceboss - if you want to really try a sour let me know. I will ship a couple of the Russian River to you and you can try them. They are by far the best at making a truly unquie and over the top beer. I have Supplication (aged on cherries) , Consecration, and Temptation (aged in chardoney barrels).

I love the sours! I don't know if they will ever get to the lebel of IPA's but I can see them get to the level of Wood aged stouts
 
I am a huge sour fan. I think they are definitely the new "hoppy". Seeing as I'm both a hophead and sourhead, I'm fine with either trend!

And yes, Duchesse de Bourgogne is phenomenal. ReverseApacheMaster, if you think the Duchesse is like Balsamic Vinegar, don't try New Belgium's La Folie. That's about as sour as it gets.
 
I am a huge sour fan. I think they are definitely the new "hoppy". Seeing as I'm both a hophead and sourhead, I'm fine with either trend!

And yes, Duchesse de Bourgogne is phenomenal. ReverseApacheMaster, if you think the Duchesse is like Balsamic Vinegar, don't try New Belgium's La Folie. That's about as sour as it gets.

Too late. I was not a fan of that, either. I'm not casting judgment on other people for enjoying them, they are just not my pint of beer.
 
Too late. I was not a fan of that, either. I'm not casting judgment on other people for enjoying them, they are just not my pint of beer.

I totally understand. I didn't think I'd enjoy sour beers, but man, I fell in love with them. It just sucks that they take so damn long to brew!
 
I totally understand. I didn't think I'd enjoy sour beers, but man, I fell in love with them. It just sucks that they take so damn long to brew!

Well you can bypass the aging process and add acids that get you in the ballpark of properly aged sour beers. That's actually what several breweries in Belgium do. I'm sure as sours continue to get popular here more breweries will get in the game but not want to commit the time or resources to the souring process so they will just dump some acids in and call it their sour. For a brewery that has very uniform brewing techniques for all of their beers (Sam Adams, Shiner, etc.) they are not going to build a new brewery just to make a sour or two. Same goes for small brew pubs that cannot afford to accidentally infect other batches and may not have the space to age a beer out for over a year.
 
Too late. I was not a fan of that, either. I'm not casting judgment on other people for enjoying them, they are just not my pint of beer.

Im with you on this one. Just doesn't sound appealing. But since Russian River is so close i may have to try one to see what all the fuss is about.
 
Well you can bypass the aging process and add acids that get you in the ballpark of properly aged sour beers. That's actually what several breweries in Belgium do. I'm sure as sours continue to get popular here more breweries will get in the game but not want to commit the time or resources to the souring process so they will just dump some acids in and call it their sour. For a brewery that has very uniform brewing techniques for all of their beers (Sam Adams, Shiner, etc.) they are not going to build a new brewery just to make a sour or two. Same goes for small brew pubs that cannot afford to accidentally infect other batches and may not have the space to age a beer out for over a year.

This quote makes me think otherwise...

Tod built a successful coolship at Allagash; Cilurzo now has 500 barrels in his Russian River stash (100 percent devoted to sour beers) and is planning to add up to 300 more; and the fifth brewer from that trip, Dogfish Head’s Sam Calagione, built an enormous tank made of Palo Santo wood for aging Palo Santo Marron
 
Im with you on this one. Just doesn't sound appealing. But since Russian River is so close i may have to try one to see what all the fuss is about.

If you try one and don't like it I'd still encourage you to try a completely different sort of sour to see if maybe you like different sours. You may not like RR's beers but you may enjoy lambics or other sours.
 
Im with you on this one. Just doesn't sound appealing. But since Russian River is so close i may have to try one to see what all the fuss is about.

Supplication is fantastic, and it's pretty approachable for someone who hasn't tried sours before. I'd suggest that first and only after that a Consecration or similar.
 
Supplication is fantastic, and it's pretty approachable for someone who hasn't tried sours before. I'd suggest that first and only after that a Consecration or similar.

Supplication was my first sour, and is still probably my favorite. Wish I could get it easily.
 
This quote makes me think otherwise...

Breweries that have specialization in sours -- Russian River -- or try to brew abnormal beers -- DFH -- are obviously going to go that route.

Do you really see big regional breweries doing this? What about 1.5 bbl brewpubs?

I'm not saying it can't be done but setting up a separate sour system in a brewery is not cheap, especially if you are going the direction of wood aging. It's a huge commitment of both time and money. Eventually you will see the just-add-acid sours coming onto the market from US brewers...
 
Breweries that have specialization in sours -- Russian River -- or try to brew abnormal beers -- DFH -- are obviously going to go that route.

Do you really see big regional breweries doing this? What about 1.5 bbl brewpubs?

I'm not saying it can't be done but setting up a separate sour system in a brewery is not cheap, especially if you are going the direction of wood aging. It's a huge commitment of both time and money. Eventually you will see the just-add-acid sours coming onto the market from US brewers...

I can see that from the BIG companies, but if it catches on like the "Hophead craze" did than im sure some of the smaller microbreweries will entertain the ideas. This may be what separates micro-brews from the big three and finely gets them a cut of a bigger market share.
 
I felt like I was drinking carbonated balsamic vinegar.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've tried a few sours and everyone tastes like I'm drinking vinegar or sucking on a lemon. Is that what a sour is supposed to taste/feel like or am I getting poor examples or mistreated bottles?
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've tried a few sours and everyone tastes like I'm drinking vinegar or sucking on a lemon. Is that what a sour is supposed to taste/feel like or am I getting poor examples or mistreated bottles?

They are definitely supposed to have flavors beside vinegar. Try a Flanders Red like the Rodenbach. I get a lot of cherry, sherry and malt character from that beer.
 
They are definitely supposed to have flavors beside vinegar. Try a Flanders Red like the Rodenbach. I get a lot of cherry, sherry and malt character from that beer.

Impossible to say what any one person will get from a beer. Also depend on the age of the bottle too. Verhaegs Duchess is about the only non alcopop style sour I can get regularly here and depending in the age of the bottle I get anything from a sort of "Tart Malted Sherry Wine" to something more subdued with hints of Raison or Dates.

All the others we get are the mass distributed Lindemans or Melbourne Bros products which tend to be so heavily backsweetened the "sour" aspect is almost gone.

There is the Lindemans Geuze and Faro. Didn't find the Gueze to be drinkable and thoroughly enjoyed the Faro but didn't find it "descript" enough to warrant commiting it's character to memory.

Outside of this, most of my sour experience have been through other brewers mistakes that I found to be delightful. In fact, after nearly 5 years of brewing i have only this year began my own endeavours into sour brewing by way of Berliner Weiss.
 
Alright, I'll have to give something else a try. After my third sour, I was ready to write off the entire category. I'll see if I can find a Flanders Red next time I stop by the liquor store.
 
Alright, I'll have to give something else a try. After my third sour, I was ready to right off the entire category. I'll see if I can find a Flanders Red next time I stop by the liquor store.

IMO, the best policy with any beer is to regularly peruse the singles aisle of as many stores as you can. I am constantly surprised by what one store can get while another cannot (distributorship). With any style, if you see a new offering or even something familiar with a new twist don;t hesitate to grab a bottle and try. You just never know.

Personally, the concept of something like an true Oyster stout just really does not appeal to me. BUT, I wont hesitate to grab one if I ever see it.
 
Unfortunately, I'm in Nashville and single bottles are pretty much unheard of down here. I might need to wait until I make a trip back up north to find some decent examples without having to commit to multiple bottles.
 
Well you can bypass the aging process and add acids that get you in the ballpark of properly aged sour beers. That's actually what several breweries in Belgium do.

Just what brewery does this?

Does anyone know of a sour beer that readily available everywhere..or in FLA at least. Id like to try one.

I've seen these beers on wholesale distributors list before here in Fla.

Boon Oude Geuze
Boon Oude Geuze Mariage Parfait
Cantillon Gueuze
Drie Fonteinen Oude Gueuze Vintage
 
Lucky here in CA we have a ton of little mom and pop stores that cater to micro-brews and not Bud. There is one called the "Cmart" about a mile away that has all the Russian river, lagunitas, Rogue, 21st amendment, ect. ect.
 
Unfortunately, I'm in Nashville and single bottles are pretty much unheard of down here. I might need to wait until I make a trip back up north to find some decent examples without having to commit to multiple bottles.

You're in Nashville? Go to Flying Saucer. They must have a sour or two.
 
God I hope sour isn't the new fad (although I admit it sure looks like it's going to be!)

I do not like much fruit/tart/sour flavors and I have yet to sample a tart beer that I would enjoy. I can choke down just about anything, (sig fodder), but besides a bit of horseblanket, I dislike all of that sour stuff.

The bright side is, even if I have to taste one of those sours beers, I can always nuke my tastebuds with a delicious IIPA!
 

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