Grains to be blamed for strange aftertaste??

Hey guys Im in the middle of brewing an IPA kit i got from Austin homebrew and im wondering if it is possible that the small leftover bits from the specialty grain bag could account for a strange off taste in the beer...I have done 2 other kits, both of which had strange off tastes...the other 2 kits however I got from a different site which instructed me to place the specialty grain bag in room temp water and allow them to steep for 30 minutes (which was above 160 degrees). After doing some research Im pretty sure this is the reason for the aftertastes I got before. However I cant help wondering if these small pieces of dust-type grains which got thru the bag could be blames as well (as they stay in the wort throughout the boil.

Could anyone shed some light on this one for me..Thanks

Not sure I understand. What are you doing with the grains from the Austin kit that is different than what you did with the other two kits?

Mashing the grains that high will allow tannins and other "off tastes" to leach out from the husks into your wort and give you some off flavors.
-Jefe-

I don't believe he is mashing... 160 degrees is not out of line for steeping grains.

with this kit I took the water temp to 155ish and steeped grains around that temp (+/- 4 degrees) for 25 minutes...with previous kits I placed the specialty grains in the water, THEN turned the heat on, and left them in the wort for 30 minutes (the temp was probably over 160 toward the end)...and yes they are extract kits...sorry if my wording was confusing..thanks in advance guys

Both those methods are accepted standards fro steeping grains. As long as the water doesn't get too much above 160F, and even then if you're not leaving them in at that temperature for more than a couple of minutes, you should be okay. The "leftover little bits" should not cause an off flavor unless your steeping bag broke and you end up boiling half the contents.

Can you describe your off flavor and the rest of your process? Including things like your sanitation routine?

your talking about the dust left in the grain bag? Ive never had any off flavors but
I often wondered if it was a culprit of my chill haze

your talking about the dust left in the grain bag? Ive never had any off flavors but
I often wondered if it was a culprit of my chill haze

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Chill haze is caused by proteins that coagulate (clump together) when the beer gets cold. Given enough time, usually a couple of weeks, they will fall to the bottom of the bottle.

There's an interview with Brewing Scientist Charles Bamforth here, regarding beer hazes. He mentions that the colder you can get your beer, the faster the chill haze will fall.

I think most off-flavors in newer brewers come from under pitching, fermenting to warm, and/or pitching too warm. What were your fermenting temps? How did you go about cooling the wort prior to pitching? These things are much more likely to cause off-flavors than a few bits of grain.

As far as my sanitation is concerned I use Star-San and follow the directions to a T (mixing the correct amount of water, allowing ample soak time, letting equipment dry before use etc etc)

As far as the Pitching Temp and Fermentation Temp go I usually use an Ice Bath (yet to just sack up and pay for a wort chiller) in the kitchen sink to cool my 2.5 gallon wort down to about 110 F.. at which point I mix it with my cool water (probly in the 50 degree range) and pitch the yeast after aerating the 5 gallons. Temp is usually around 75 when I pitch the yeast. Fermentation temperature is usually between 70 and 74 degrees and stays fairly consistent throughout the fermentation process

Any thoughts? Can u spot somewhere im going wrong that im not picking up on??

Thanks in advance guys

I'm guessing extract twang. Try using light DME exclusively along with specialty grains and see if that taste goes away. Also, are you using top-off water at the end (partial boil)? The more you can boil, the less extract taste. At least, that's what I remember from extract brewing....

Meatball358 said:

As far as my sanitation is concerned I use Star-San and follow the directions to a T (mixing the correct amount of water, allowing ample soak time, letting equipment dry before use etc etc)

As far as the Pitching Temp and Fermentation Temp go I usually use an Ice Bath (yet to just sack up and pay for a wort chiller) in the kitchen sink to cool my 2.5 gallon wort down to about 110 F.. at which point I mix it with my cool water (probly in the 50 degree range) and pitch the yeast after aerating the 5 gallons. Temp is usually around 75 when I pitch the yeast. Fermentation temperature is usually between 70 and 74 degrees and stays fairly consistent throughout the fermentation process

Any thoughts? Can u spot somewhere im going wrong that im not picking up on??

Thanks in advance guys

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I think the fermentation temps are the culprit. I would try cooling the wort to around 65 degress before pitching and keeping the fermentation temps under 70 the whole time. I am not sure what yeasts you have been using, but I know Nottingham gives a funky flavor the warmer it gets.
As for the steeping grains, I highly doubt that is your problem. When I first started and used steeping grains, my instructions told me to pull the grains out just before the water boils, so I know I have steeped in 190+ plus water with no off flavors. I really believe it's the higher fermentation temps causing your off flavors. Give it a shot to keep them down and keep us updated.

Meatball, a few pieces of grain that get out during steeping is not the source of your off flavors. I will say that I'm not positive what your cause is but I can tell you this. When I steeped my grains, 160F was the upper limit. If you hold it at that you should be fine. If you're off +-4 degrees then you could be in trouble. 164 MAY be too much. However, I would say that your fermentation temps are probably your cause. I used to have a LOT of off flavors in the past. In my experience, virtually ALWAYS the fermentation temp was the cause. I would allow my brews to get to 70-74. There is plenty of ways to keep your ferm. temps down. Just look it up. I never ferment an ale above 68 now, and it has drastically improved my results. Another thing that I was reluctant to do was to make a starter. Believe me, you can make good beer without a starter, but under pitching is another big source of "off" flavors. IMHO though, it's probably your fermentation temps. I'd keep it at 68 or below for an ale.

IMO, water and fermentation temperature and are the biggest causes of off-flavors. Test your water pH. Most municipal supplies are usually quite basic; this can cause astringency.

Meatball358 said:

... place the specialty grain bag in room temp water and allow them to steep for 30 minutes (which was above 160 degrees)...

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I'm no scientist, but I'm guessing at least one of your problems is that you're brewing in a room where the temperature is higher than 160°! I believe that both Papazian AND Palmer reccommend that you not brew on the surface of the Sun.

I kid, I kid...

Well in an attempt to address all of the posts above (and youll forgive me if i leave any out as ive had a few microbrews this evening)...but Ive used White Labs Yeast exclusively since Ive started. I have not added any "top off" water or partial boil to my knowledge. And I had previously used Liquid Extract until the kit which is now in my primary for which I used DME.

Im hoping that the different steeping methods and change from LME to DME will have some benefits but I cant help feeling that perhaps the temperature is what is causing the off tastes (based on some research ive been up to recently.

My question to you guys now is how the hell do I provide the fermenter a solid 65 degrees to ferment at when my house is set to a constant 72 degrees?? Bear in mind that I am trying to work on a low budget so expensive temperature control devices are most likely out of the question.

Any thoughts u guys have will be most appreciated...ive gone through 3 kits so far and im starting to get discouraged. If i can find a way to brew a tasty homebrew I will without a doubt stick to homebrewing but i gotta admit im on the edge at this point, i cant help feeling im just sinking money into a failed project.

sorry to all for the drunk-ish ramblings and thanks in advance for your help

put your fermenter in a water bath (a big cooler, bathtub, keg tub, whatever..) and freeze a few water bottles to add to the water (have enough to swap them out as they thaw), cover your fermenter with an old t-shirt or towel to wick the water up to cool the fermenter, if you have a fan use that to blow onto the wet shirt or towel, this should get your temps to a reasonable range. look into these threads

+1 to the advice given by azcoob. The temperature regulation doesn't have to be fancy, but you really have to keep the beer under 70F (and over 55F) while fermenting, unless the style dictates otherwise. For best results, you'd keep the temperature constant somewhere in that range, but for your first few good brews, a couple frozen bottles and a waterbath is going to do just fine.

Do check the pH of your water as well though, and try to keep your steeping grains under 160F during the 30mins.

Please describe the strange aftertaste. Without knowing which particular strangeness it is, everything is just speculation.

Meatball358 said:

As far as my sanitation is concerned I use Star-San and follow the directions to a T (mixing the correct amount of water, allowing ample soak time, letting equipment dry before use etc etc)

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StarSan is a wet contact sanitizer. After it dries, it will not sanitize against any bug that hits the equipment. That may or may not have anything to do with your off-flavor, but do not fear the foam.

arturo7 said:

Please describe the strange aftertaste. Without knowing which particular strangeness it is, everything is just speculation.

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Its kind of banana-ish but not really strong bananas...more of just an odd bland kind of taste

And thanks for the advice on the Ice bath...Ill give it a shot and Keep you guys posted on the progress...the yeast is lagging a bit and at the current time the actual fermentation hasnt started yet (maybe the lag has something to do with the taste)...so im hoping if I get the carboy cooled off before the actual fermenting starts Ill be able to avoid some of the aftertasts of the past

How long are you bottle conditioning your beers? Meaning when are you tasting this?

Revvy said:

How long are you bottle conditioning your beers? Meaning when are you tasting this?

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My last 2 I drank when they were not yet conditioned, you advised me a while back to let them condition and the strange taste remains in 2 different brews which have conditioned for 6-8 months now..the taste has gone away slightly but is still highly an issue