Barrel-Aging Roll Call

Saccharomyces · Feb 18, 2010

Brewmoor said:
Their site says they age their liquor for a minimum of two years. So minimum of 2 years of fluid in the barrel we got from them. I guess we will just need to take samples every month until it tastes right.

Yeah. You could ask how many times the barrel was re-used. Usually the barrels are used more than once. So if they age for two years in the barrel, the barrel is probably four years old. Or maybe six. The end product is usually blended from multiple barrels.

Brewmoor · Feb 18, 2010

This company only uses their barrels once. We scored.

Saccharomyces · Feb 18, 2010

Wow. In that case 3 months is probably way too long. Guess you will have to brew LOTS of beer for this barrel.

I_B_Mongo · Feb 18, 2010

I have a barleywine in mine. Tasted it yesterday, after 3.5 weeks. I love the aroma and taste, although I'll let it mellow in a carboy a while to knock off the edges of the bourbon taste a little. Has anybody bottled their beers from the barrel, and if so, did you have to add any additional yeast?

user 22118 · Feb 18, 2010

I haven't bottled, but I am for sure going to be adding more yeast seeing as I have close to 12%abv.

Saccharomyces · Feb 18, 2010

Never hurts to add add'l yeast at bottling. I have had great success with Montrachet as a bottling yeast since it isn't hyper-attenuative and it's a whopping $0.99 a pack.

I_B_Mongo · Feb 18, 2010

Saccharomyces said:
Never hurts to add add'l yeast at bottling. I have had great success with Montrachet as a bottling yeast since it isn't hyper-attenuative and it's a whopping $0.99 a pack.

Thanks Sacc. I happen to have some in the fridge as I type.
Just incase I decide to make an impromptu batch of Ed Wort's Apfelwein! Again, at $0.99, it's worth keeping a few packs around!

SpanishCastleAle · Feb 18, 2010

Brewmoor said:
How did you decide on the age? We just brewed 60 gallons of robust porter to put in a barrel. We each separately did 10 gallon batches. We are going to combine after fermentation is done.

We are tossing around numbers like 3-6 months for the aging, based on the volume of the barrel. This is a first for all of us.

I just picked one.

It's my first barrel (and first brew in that barrel) and I wasn't confident I'd be able to taste green, flat beer and tell when it was 'ripe'. Especially since the whisky flavor/aroma are in the beer pretty quickly. So my plan was to age the first brew 3 weeks, second brew 5 weeks, and after I get the third brew in there to taste the first brew. I'll prob let the third brew go for a while. Hopefully having all these different variations of the same beer will help me to 'learn' what these flavors in beer are all about. Blending is always a possibility.

I'm assumimg the whiskey flavor/aroma will diminish more than the wood flavor with subsequent batches...is that true?

user 22118 · Feb 18, 2010

whiskey will be the first to go. The wood should hang around for a good 2 years from the first drop of liquid. The little guys will go a little faster though. If you plan on getting about 12 months worth of aging out of it, that is a good number. I hope to get at least six brews out of each of my barrels.

3 Dog Brew · Feb 19, 2010

Apfelwine was the first liquid in and out of my barrel. I had it in there for 2 weeks then bottled (no tasting yet, but I will tonight). The second batch in was a 8%ABV old ale. It's been in there almost 4 weeks and the sample I theifed last night tells me it's ready to be bottled. Then the barrel will get the big Christmas ale (10% ABV) for at least 4 weeks (probably longer).

Question:
My understanding is that temperature fluctuations are what make barrels work and after the spring is over here, it's going to just be hot. I don't plan on using the barrel for beer during the summer and plan on putting some storebought bourbon in there (a fifth or a qt, not the full 5 gallons $$$!). Will the evaporation of volatiles and occasionally changing the barrel poistion be enough or do I need to do somethig else?

I have a single sulfur strip, but don't know what to do with it.
TIA

Airborneguy · Feb 19, 2010

I just bottled my smoked barleywine and next is going to be an old ale which I want to age for about 3-4 months in the barrel.

If that comes out good, I am going to keep making old ales as they sour nicely and either blend them or just see how far I can take the sourness.

ragweed · Mar 12, 2010

Just bottled my bourbon barrel RIS, in goes the barlewine next.

Irrenarzt · Mar 12, 2010

I've got an arrogant bastard clone in my Balcones barrel that I'm calling Oaksoaking Bastige. I'm 8 days in and it seems to need a bit more.

eljefe · Mar 17, 2010

I realize this may be a niave question, but what the heck. I am receiving my barrel tomorrow. SWMBO is out of town so what a great time for it to show up :rockin:.

That being said I will not be ready to put anything into it for a few weeks. I have read several posts suggesting/stating people are putting bourbon/whisley in the barrel to keep it moist.

May I ask how much should I add? I assume 5 gallons is overkill but would 750 ml be enough? Any thoughts? Thanks

Irrenarzt · Mar 18, 2010

Fill it with hot water and that will keep it fresh and ready to go when you need it. Personally I think it's a bad idea to use whiskey as it already strongly tastes like whiskey so unless you really want to impart a strong whiskey taste, you are just compounding the problem. I'm looking to mellow mine out. Also, you will have to constant keep swishing it around to keep the inside moist unless you fill the whole thing with whiskey. Not the case with water.

I_B_Mongo · Mar 20, 2010

@ eljefe-
I filled mine with a handle of Jim Beam, and just rotated it a 1/4 turn every day. Irrenarzt is correct in saying that you will get a strong whiskey taste too the following beer. I've been letting my barleywine (the first beer I ran through the barrel) mellow out for almost 3 weeks due to the STRONG bourbon taste. My only problem with filling the barrel with hot water is I'm afraid it may strip the bourbon from the wood, maybe the oakiness too? I don't know if either one will happen, but I'd rather let the beer sit to mellow out (since it'll have to age anyway) than potentially stripping out all bourbon/oak.
Good luck!

user 22118 · Mar 20, 2010

Just bottled my Barleywine and thinking of adding in a light pale into it next. Not sure really

eljefe · Mar 20, 2010

I_B_Mongo said:
@ eljefe-
I filled mine with a handle of Jim Beam, and just rotated it a 1/4 turn every day. Irrenarzt is correct in saying that you will get a strong whiskey taste too the following beer. I've been letting my barleywine (the first beer I ran through the barrel) mellow out for almost 3 weeks due to the STRONG bourbon taste. My only problem with filling the barrel with hot water is I'm afraid it may strip the bourbon from the wood, maybe the oakiness too? I don't know if either one will happen, but I'd rather let the beer sit to mellow out (since it'll have to age anyway) than potentially stripping out all bourbon/oak.
Good luck!

Is there a middle ground? A mixture of water and bourbon? I can talk myself into this is a genius idea as well as a really dumb one. I was thinking 1 liter bourbon (cheap) and the rest water. It could prevent the flavor being leeched out.

I_B_Mongo · Mar 20, 2010

I would use a bourbon you like the taste of...cause it is gonna end up in your beer. You can always drain it back into the bottle, and re-use it to re-season your barrel between beers. You dropped a lot of money on the barrel, and a lot of time in the batch of beer. A $40 handle of Jack/Jim/etc. isn't really too bad in comparison, esp. if you re-use it several times.

eljefe · Mar 20, 2010

I_B_Mongo said:
I would use a bourbon you like the taste of...cause it is gonna end up in your beer. You can always drain it back into the bottle, and re-use it to re-season your barrel between beers. You dropped a lot of money on the barrel, and a lot of time in the batch of beer. A $40 handle of Jack/Jim/etc. isn't really too bad in comparison, esp. if you re-use it several times.

Great point, but a handle isn't filling the barrell up, so do I do mixture of a JD or JD/other brand and water, or to your point do I invest in 5 gallons of bourbon or whiskey and just re-use it over and over.

Thanks

commonlaw · Mar 21, 2010

why not add a handle of cheap vodka? has the same preservative effect, won't add bourbon flavor. Maybe it wills trip the bourbon/oak flavor though? I think it depends what you want to do with your barrel. more bourbon flavor add bourbon. Move to sour beers quickly, maybe try vodka or water. you don't need to fill the barrel. Just swish the liquid around.

I_B_Mongo · Mar 24, 2010

I just put in a handle. I make sure to give it a 1/4 turn every day, and also stand it up on each head too. The key is to try to schedule your brewery so that on the day you empty beer A, beer B goes in, when beer B is emptied, C goes in, etc. Eventually you will strip all the bourbon and oak flavors, but then you can turn it into a sour barrel...that's my plan at least. Good luck!

jessup · Mar 24, 2010

Irrenarzt said:
Fill it with hot water and that will keep it fresh and ready to go when you need it.

DO NOT FILL IT WITH HOT WATER!! hot water has alot of crap in it, bacteria and whatnot. your hot water heater is not by any means sanitary. it's ok to rinse with hot water, but not to store in the barrel. always fill it with cold water and use campden or some metabisulfate to keep the wild bugs out best you can. recently i've been using jim bean just to keep the whisky flavor present whenever it's empty and not being used for a few days.

I've had my 5 gal for a few months and aged a barleywine in it for a little more than 3 weeks. Then i put a scotch ale in it for about 6 weeks. now i have an RIS in it and that will stay in for about 2 months. i still have to plan my next beer to go into the barrel when the RIS is done. I have another barrel that's only 3 gal which is a sour barrel and has been stripped of its oakiness after a year of use which aged a good half dozen different beers.

my barrel has been really helping to drop the gravity of these BIG beers. the barleywine went in at about 1.025 and came out at about 1.010. I don't know why this is happeneing, but happened to the scotch ale and now the RIS is also fermenting. it's good in the sense i'll get the most bang outta these beers as possible along with the whisky kickin it up a notch. yay oak barrels!!

3 Dog Brew · Mar 24, 2010

I_B_Mongo said:
I just put in a handle. ..., but then you can turn it into a sour barrel...that's my plan at least. Good luck!

I have 2 questions if you'll indulge me:

WTH is a "handle"?

How does one go about "turning it into a sour barrel"? I've been poking around the "wild and Lambic" forum, but there's no real "start here" that obvious. I'm also reading "wild brews", but haven't progressed much.

Thanks

commonlaw · Mar 24, 2010

3 Dog Brew said:
I have 2 questions if you'll indulge me:

WTH is a "handle"?

1.75L of liquor... surprised you never heard this term. Think about big bottles of liquor. They come with handles for dispensing. Hence the name.

How does one go about "turning it into a sour barrel"? I've been poking around the "wild and Lambic" forum, but there's no real "start here" that obvious. I'm also reading "wild brews", but haven't progressed much.

Thanks

Poke around a bit more and also check out http://www.themadfermentationist.com/. His site is cool and he also posts on the boards here.

The barrel, once stripped of its bourbon and oak flavor, can be a great fermentation or secondary vessel for sour beers because bugs will hang out in the wood. You can pitch sour blends from WL or Wyeast, and also add dregs of sour beers for fermentation to get some funky stuff. You strip the barrel of flavor by using it a lot (i.e. bringing many beers in contact over a prolonged period).

pjk49202 · Apr 19, 2010

I should really post my pics of the rumble barrel I have filled now.......

TheBaconator · Nov 29, 2010

Another note on the sour factor. I didn't keep beers in my barrel all the time. I've been putting one every 6 months or so in there. Anywho, it was sour on my second batch. I racked to secondary and let the beer clear and then moved it to the barrel. I left it in the barrel for about two weeks and bottled. When I tasted it at bottling time it was spot on, no sourness. After conditioning for about a week and a half it had an awesome sour flavor. I wasn't trying to get my beer to be sour, I just wanted a good oak stout. What I got was a sour stout which i've never heard of before but it's pretty good. Anywho from here on out it'll be flanders reds and such. The moral of the story is if you want a sour barrel, just wait.

jessup · Nov 30, 2010

3 Dog Brew said:
How does one go about "turning it into a sour barrel"? I've been poking around the "wild and Lambic" forum, but there's no real "start here" that obvious. I'm also reading "wild brews", but haven't progressed much.

it's not so much a good thing, but an eventual reality. as noted above, my SG kept dropping to very low readings in my 5gal barrel; every batch eventually went sour after conditioning. point is that barrel was soured from day 1 for no real good reason so you won't have to try to hard if you're looking to sour a barrel. in the wine world if your barrel goes sour it's garbage for their purposes and that's when they'll sell 'em for $50. if you want to expedite the souring or harbor particular bugs either A. pitch a bought WL/WY culture, B. pour in bottle dregs or C. find Al_B. brettanomyces is everywhere and eventually, especially in a material like wood, they're going to overtake it. you can't bleach or star-san wood...

3 Dog Brew · Nov 30, 2010

jessup said:
... brettanomyces is everywhere and eventually, especially in a material like wood, they're going to overtake it. you can't bleach or star-san wood...

So do sulfur strips help at all if I want to keep a barrel from souring too soon?

BTW: thanks for the responses, I get what you are saying.

pipapat · Nov 30, 2010

i have 15gallons of lambic aging at the moment.
Next up will be 15 of sour brown.

Barrel-Aging Roll Call

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