AG newbie - Dunkelweizen

After reading about it for weeks, I feel ready to take the plunge into all-grain. I'm fairly sure I'm going to do the batch sparge method for the mash, although I've also been considering DeathBrewer's Easy Stovetop method. Anyway, after searching through Dunkelweizen recipes, here's what I'm thinking about for a 5.5g batch:

From LHBS
- 5 lbs RAHR White Wheat
- 3 lbs RAHR 2-Row Malt
- 1 lb Briess Light Munich Malt
- 1 lb Briess Crystal Malt 40L

- White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen yeast, fermenting at 68-70 to get slightly more banana flavors than clove from the yeast

For hops, I'm planning on using 1oz of Tettnag (5.5%) at 60 minutes, but I also have another ounce of Hallertau (3.0%) on hand. Experimenting with adding the Hallertau near the end of the boil wound be fun, but it would also not be true to style for a German weizen... Anyone had any experience with an unconventional hop schedule for a darker weizen they've made?

Thanks for any advice you guys might have for this AG virgin.

With that much wheat, you're going to want to throw in plenty of rice hulls to keep from getting a stuck sparge.

I am still relatively new to all grain, with maybe 12 batches under my belt. I have recently started using wheat.

I would have been frustrated if I had started with my current equipment (false bottom manifold), as I have had to be more delicate with the wheat and adjusted my sparge technique. I started doing the mash in a grain bag, so I was really guarenteed success (read no stuck sparge).

That being said, if you are one who can be frustrated by complications and would like to decrease variables to increase the chances of a great first all grain brew day, maybe try a straight barley grain bill (I used EdWorts, Haus Pale to pop my cherry, like so many others).

But if you like wheat, rock on! I bet the beer gods will smile and chase off the gnomes for you.

As to the recipe, it looks good... you mashing at 153 degrees?

I keep my ferment temp cooler than that and still have a good balance of flavors, though I am using the WL hefe IV (380, IIRC) And I do use .5 lbs of soaked rice hulls per 10 lbs of grain bill.

Good luck, and fear not... AG is NOT as hard as it sounds!

After some more reading and considering the equipment I already have on hand, I've decided to go with DeathBrewer's stove-top method for my mash. Since my grains will be contained inside of a fine mesh bag, will I still need to use rice hulls? I plan on mashing ~153 give or take a few degrees, with the water prepared an extra 10 degrees before the grain goes in.

I've been messing around with BeerSmith and ProMash tonight, just making sure that my grain bill was what I needed for a 5.5 gallon batch.

Grains
- 5 lbs (50%) RAHR Wheat Malt 1.038 SG
- 3 lbs (30%) RAHR 2-Row Pale Malt 1.036 SG
- 1 lb (10%) Briess Munich Light Malt 1.033 SG
- 1 lb (10%) Briess Crystal Malt 40L 1.034 SG

- Estimated overall starting gravity: 1.050 SG
- Estimated final gravity: 1.010 SG (5.2% ABV)
- SRM: 8.7 (bit lighter than what I was expecting but I'd imagine it looks darker in person and in a glass, close to the Weihenstephaner Dunkelweizen that I would love to come close to replicating)

Hops
- 0.5oz Tettnang Plug (5.5%), 60 minutes
- 0.5oz Tettnang Plug (5.5%), 10 minutes

- Estimated total IBUs: 13.7 (mid-range)

From what ProMash is telling me, it looks like my recipe fits the bill as far as the numbers go. Then again, it's the first time I've used the software so let me know if it looks like I messed something up.

It's more of a Hefeweizen than an dunkelweizen. I would add in .25lb chocolate wheat malt. That would give you the darker brown color you should get.

I've been AG'ing dunkels for a good amount of time. everything looks great, but the color wont hit the class. Personally, to still give it a nice body and color i would use carafa special II. I also would use more munich and lower your 2-row.

I know you're new to AG but decoction mashing dunkels is the way to go!

mesh bag = no rice hulls needed

hulls build the filter bed in the mash tun, as wheat has nu hull compared to barley,

I'm making a Dunkelweizen version of my Bavarian Hefe. It's very simple and sticks with only pils & wheat malt.

6# Weyermann Wheat Malt
4# Weyermann Pils Malt
1/2# Weyermann Chocolate Wheat Malt

1 ounce Hallertau at 45 min.

Wyeast 3068

Thanks for the help. After playing around with ProMash, I think 5-6oz of Chocolate Wheat Malt is exactly what I need to make this recipe complete. Just hope my LHBS carries it, since I don't remember seeing it the last time I was in.

I realize that this is a bit on the lighter side of a Dunkelweizen, but that's what I'm looking for with this recipe. Something with a bit more to it than a Hefeweizen, but still around 5-6% abv that is easy drinking for the summertime. Once it starts turning a bit chilly, I'll definitely start planning to make a nice big weizenbock. :cross:

Also, I just looked up my Tettnang and it was US-grown (http://www.americanhopplugs.com/secure/productDetail.asp?id=130). Would that make my German Hallertau more appropriate, or would the difference be negligible?

I like to use all German ingredient when I make a German style beer.

Isn't a Dunkelweizen just 50% Wheat malt, 50% Munich and a touch of Chocolate for color?

BJCP Guidelines:

By German law, at least 50% of the grist must be malted wheat, although some versions use up to 70%; the remainder is usually Munich and/or Vienna malt. A traditional decoction mash gives the appropriate body without cloying sweetness. Weizen ale yeasts produce the typical spicy and fruity character, although extreme fermentation temperatures can affect the balance and produce off-flavors. A small amount of noble hops are used only for bitterness.

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So AT LEAST 50% is wheat, though I think most go higher.

When I was searching through the Dunkelweizen recipes, quite a few included Crystal in the grain bill.

Just got back from the LHBS, too. No Chocolate Wheat Malt, but I did pick up some Chocolate Barley malt. It has some nice chocolate/bread/coffee notes to the smell. Seems like it should work given the relatively small amount I'll be using?

I don't think there is a chocolate wheat, just barley. But yeah, that should work just fine, how much are you planning on using?

Gremlyn1 said:

I don't think there is a chocolate wheat, just barley. But yeah, that should work just fine, how much are you planning on using?

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There is. BeerSmith has it, and Brewmasters Warehouse carries it. It may be harder to find in some smaller homebrew shops, but it's out there.

I'm not sure how it would work, but if you cant find it, you may consider rosting some of your wheat malt in the oven.

Well I'll be... have to try and find some of that next time I do a Dunkelweizen then.

Gremlyn1 said:

I don't think there is a chocolate wheat, just barley. But yeah, that should work just fine, how much are you planning on using?

Click to expand...

4-5% of your grain bill should give you the Dunkel you are looking for. :cross:

Brewmaster's Warehouse has a great price of $1.70 per pound for it.

https://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/products/Weyermann-Chocolate-Wheat-0101511

I'm planning on using 5oz/0.31 lb, or about 3%, in the hopes of keeping it on the very drinkable/banana bread side of things. I'll keep Brewmaster's Warehouse in mind for my next dark wheat brew, though. Thanks for the link. I always like to be more true to style whenever possible, which is why I'll be going with the German Hallertau instead of the US Tettnang. I figure I can save the latter for an ESB or Nut Brown down the road.

I should have this done and into primary by the end of the day tomorrow, and will update as soon as that happens. Thanks again for all the help!

Well, today was a good day. I just got done pitching the yeast and everything seemed to go more or less good procedure-wise. I was pretty impressed with how my new chiller performed; boiling to low-70s in about 15 minutes with an ice bath. I only have three concerns.

First, the mash temperature was a bit high at first. I heated up the mash water to 163-165 expecting it do drop to around 153 when I added the grain bag, instead it hovered around 160 for ten minutes while I expected the thermometer to adjust. I added some chilled water and it got down to 153-150. Should I expect any issues from this? Second, the SG is way higher than I was expecting according to my refractometer. I calibrated it with RO water before using it and got a final wort SG of 1.075. I didn't even think this was possible since if the reading is correct, I must have gotten crazy efficiency or something. Something doesn't seem right. Finally, the wort in my carboy is much cloudier than I expected. There are lots of particles settling even though I used a mesh screen to filter it after siphoning the cooled mash water through a nylon bag folded over a few times. I guess it could just be my inexperience, though.

After last night, I checked on this beer at about noon and the yeast was moving things around inside the carboy, the currents inside that thing are really cool, with almost constant bubbles coming out of the airlock. It smells more and more like bananas every few hours hours. I also moved it down to the basement where the temp is about 68 degrees in order to chill the carboy down from the 73 degrees it has been at since pitching.

All in all things seem to be going very well despite the weird OG reading from yesterday.